Practice Day 9

Sounds like Nelson had a great day.



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Actually, it sounds as if Heaps got pwned today, and that the defense totally dominated play today against him. Riley won the day easilyk. Sounds like Jake was under serious pressure--I am sure by design--and did not respond too well. The 2nd unit O-line sounds as if they got it totally handed to them today in a really bad way. Defense totally owned the day. And while Riley was better than Heaps today and deserves a win for the day, the 2nd unit O needs to step it up, and way too many drops. Mahina especially.



Intensity amped up though, and that is good. The offense needs to respond tomorrow is all I know. Too many dropped passes, too many QB sacks by the 2nd unit O-line. The offense is not real sharp over the last few practices overall. At least the D is bringing it. If today's trend continues, Riley will win the job for sure.

Credit Riley. that's great! Now that Jake is "down" or had a rough day, lets see how he rebounds tomorrow.I think that will be very pivotal in the coaches decision making (again, we are missing alot of first-hand context, other than the reporters who say Riley did well today (against the 2nd D).

Glad Bronco brought the "all-out" D, if thats what he was doing. They needed a good day. Jake and Riley need that bc that's what teams WOULD throw at particularly jake, if he gets any PT.

Also, just heard SoOto on the 1280. he was vey confident in the D-line. He said Coach Kaufusi usually only has confidence in 3 or 4 guys (Jan concured) but Coach K "has confidence in 6 guys" on the Dline.

Vic also said in a response to a question of who of the new guys looks good, Travis Tiuloma looks very good for the future. Very strong. Has to learn schemes.

Sounds as if the TE position battle is ongoing, and not in a good way. Mahina had many drops today, as did Muehlmann. Those guys need to have fly paper for hands. Mahina has had issues since HS with hands, though. His scouting report even mentions it.



I think the starter will get named Monday. Scrimmage tomorrow and Saturday, both closed to public. I think the coaches are getting serious now, and forcing the O to make execute or get smacked. Next 4 days will be huge for both QBs.

Nelson's drive sucked. It was only because people caught his passes and he ran without getting tacked. If he didn't score a touchdown he would have been just as good as jake. somehow this is actually bad news for nelson. Trust me. I suspect that Jake felt bad for the elder Nelson and decided to do crappy just to help Nelson feel good about himself. :P



Just doing my job as a member of the now infamous "heaps clan".



Riley was awesome today. Jake wasn't. Interesting. One of those few days where there is a clear winner.

Heaps will be fine. I'm glad he's getting a little adversity and speed played against him to show him how we need him to step up. I have no doubt he will adjust, it just takes some time to get used to this level.



It's also great to see Nelson doing well, his experience is a big part of what made him successful today.

I think it's quite clear that Riley has earned the right to start against Washington; the question now is how much Heaps thrown in; if and when. Riley is not good enough to guarantee a redshirt for Heaps, and to be honest if we're in a game down 12+ in the 4th quarter, we need a guy that can throw the ball so Heaps needs snaps early imho.



Riley's running is what we need to keep UW off balance, and he helps take pressure off Heaps when he gets his share of the series. No one likes to game plan for 2 very different quarterbacks, the question is how well Robert Anae likes to game plan for his.



Bottom line, Riley is a factor and cannot be ignored.



I like the idea of this 2 qb system, particularly if both QBs embrace the reasoning. Riley is a solid, low mistake guy that doesn't have as much home run potential but can manage a team down the field. He has the potential to help you, and doesn't hurt you.



Jake has all the tools to make us think "Detmer" but he's mentally not there yet; as we'd expect for any freshman. (Detmer was a rs though) He has home run talent and potential and is the cornerstone of our future.



note: I'm not saying that Riley will be starting mid-season, but that he's the safe option to start against UW. I dont' think he's separated himself from Heaps, but I don't think Heaps has any separation either. From that point you go with the upperclassman to start against UW and evaluate on the fly. If Riley had even 10% more arm, I think it'd be a no-brainer to redshirt Heaps.

I think our defense is going to be really good for a long time. I'm not at all surprised that our 2nd string D-line and blitzing backers are owning the 2nd string O-line. We have some really young and very talented guys. I think our defense is finally catching up to the offense in terms of overall talent. Credit Bronco and our recruiting for that. BYU is only going to get better and that should scare the living daylights out of any team that's set to play BYU down the road as well as the jaded BCS.

Mars wrote:

Riley is a solid, low mistake guy that doesn't have as much home run potential but can manage a team down the field. He has the potential to help you, and doesn't hurt you.

I worry a little about his fumbling problem in fall camp.

He certainly hasnt' been perfect, and we know he can't make all the throws; which is exactly why the door hasnt' been slammed shut on Heaps playing as a true freshman, rather I kind of expect it now. From day 1, I was hoping for a redshirt for jake, but Riley hasn't done enough to make me believe that will happen. Riley has done enough to convince me that he'll be starting against UW, if for nothing else but to keep the dogs at bay when Jake does enter the game.



Heaps has a much higher ceiling; that alone doesn't guarantee him playing time as a true frosh; at least not with Riley playing well thus far.

Very well said Craigo. I couldn't agree more.

And maybe it will morph from Riley as starter to Jake as starter mid-way through the season. Wildcat offenses are only so good. But as an augmentation (dont even go there sicko's--if you are one) it makes more sense.

Again, we are QB U not Runningman U.

It is interesting reading the tweets on the board from the media who attend practices. Still not universal in who will be QB, and many think it is still open because much of the issues Heaps had today were due to drops and his O-line. Plus, he had more reps v. the 1's again than Riley, which is interesting. Jake continues to go v. the #1 defense more, which has to be calculated on the coaches part. I still think it is really close, and it really comes down to what Bronco prefers; leadership and more experience v. more raw talent and passing ability. Bronco tends to go with experience, even over raw skill at times. I think if Heaps does not pick it up in the next 4 days, Nelson starts for sure.

Anyone remember the movie Major League. The guy from the Caribbean, Cerrano I think his name was, can hit the ball a country mile. The coaches are watching him in batting practice and he's just crushing the ball. Coaches are astounded and wonder why he's not in the majors already. So they have the pitcher throw him a curve. Swing and a miss. Swing and a miss. Swing and a miss.



I wonder if this is what happened to Jake. The coaches threw some curves his way and he wasn't ready for them. That said, Jake will be able to hit the curve and I imagine much quicker than it took Cerrano, who didn't hit one until the pennant playoff game at the end of the movie.



I think that analogy works.

I really DON'T mind hearing that the defense has been stepping things up.



1) Defenses are SUPPOSED to dominate during fall practices



2) If our defense COULDN'T stop a freshman QB like Heaps or a former backup QB like Nelson, it would cast some major doubts onto how they'd perform against the likes of Ponder, Locker, Wynn, and Dalton.



3) As I've said before, we will be UW only if the defense plays a great game. I don't see Nelson OR Heaps stepping out game 1 and playing very well - but with enough defensive stops, they will be able to get us into the endzone enough times to win the games.



That's just my TAKE on it ("take" capitalized to go with the theme of having a capitalized word in every paragraph.)

hmmm... didn't see it, but reading stuff from people who did they seem to think the disparity wasn't as large because of drops and the fact that Heaps was going against the 1's. Of course, that could be the evil media, that hate Riley with a capital H, because his name is not Jake Heaps ;) One thing I know for sure, the coaches know the situation, and they are turning up the heat. I like seeing Jake struggle against our 1 defense. It let's me know that we have a very good 1 defense. I think that this will be our best defense of the 2000's, as long as the linebackers shake out okay (also Pendleton needs to be healthy, he is way too important for our run D to be replaceable). Good on Nelson for doing a good job. How did he do against the ones, does anybody know?



I just hope that they come closer to making a decision in the next week. We know that both are going to play, that is already a given, but we need to start giving the Lions share of snaps to the starter. Especially if it is Jake, we need to give him a full week of bringing the house, so he can get past that threshold of being overwhelmed. If Riley is the guy, same thing, so that he can know when to dump off and when to go through complete reads.

Obviously the #s are all mixed around based on what defense they're playing against, etc. etc. but you can't just blame receivers for drops, that would be silly. Quarterbacks have to make good decisions and throw to and where it wont' be dropped.



The point of today, regardless of where Riley had his success, is that there has been no clear separation between the two thus far, and unless there is, you dont' throw a true freshman out on day 1 as the starter, especially when you're playing his hometown team that would love nothing more than to take a few shots at ending his freshman season early.



Unless Riley unravels or Jake all of a sudden channels John Elway, Nelson will start against UW. Heaps will be a factor sooner or later and has done enough to show that he's a difference maker now; but all things considered, the mature upperclassman with college playing experience (and legs to get out of trouble in the pocket) gets the nod right now; with Heaps breathing down his neck.

Considering he never went to a bowl game in college, I hope Jake doesn't channel Elway!

Interesting to see that nelson has one good day and all of the sudden everybody is on the nelson badnwagon. these things sure change quickly.



i think jake had a bad day and riley had a good one. i am not ready to say that jake should not start yet. we will see what happens this week. its a big week.



i have to disagree about the two qb system. i think its a large part of why our receivers and tight ends are dropping balls. I think Riley should be used alot in 3rd and 2 or short and goals situations, but if the plan is to start jake at some point in this season (which i think it has to be given riley's inability to separate himself from the true freshman), then you start now getting him the reps and go with him so the team chemistry starts to build. this offense is about timing. jake needs those reps.



i think riley is going to be used like tebow was in leaks' senior year if he is not hte starter and i think they ahve jake slated as being the starter. its just a question of when. might that is the case, get him the reps and get that timing down.

Prior to today, many posters here speculated that Heaps was getting most of the reps with the 1s and vs the 1s because he was already annointed by Bronco and we were all just trying to keep that a big secret to confuse UW - who probably isn't worrying much about it yet - maybe in a week they will start worrying about it more.



Today's results probably aren't as clear as the stats show. In an interview, Bronco did note that some well-thrown balls were dropped and that it would not be counted against the QB if the ball was where it was supposed to be (I will assume that he also means as long as it was thrown with the right touch as well). Some tight ends, RBs, and receivers may soon fall out of the mix, however, if they keep dropping balls (can't or won't be trusted were Bronco's words).



So Heaps probably played quite a bit better than the stats indicate. Nelson gets some advantage in stats due to not beging against the 1s very often. But keep in mind - that goes both ways. Nelson has done much of what he has done this camp playing with the 2s including that porous O/L. I trust that the coaches will keep this all straight in their minds and that they do what they do re who plays when and what plays get called for good reason - not all of which has anything to do with evaluating the QB. They have a lot of other people and things to evaluate too.



Nelson's INT was on a tipped pass - not clear whether it was tipped by the D (Riley would be accountable) or by the O on a ball that should have been caught (Riley would not be accountable). Anyone know?



I would NOT ABSOLUTELY KNOW who to pick if we played tomorrow - but I would go with Nelson. Fortunatley, we have more time for the picture to get clearer before the coaches have to make the call.



So let me toss this out - not as GOSPEL - just as what I would do if I ran things at BYU - and this is exactly what I think the coaches are doing.



I would not play Riley with 1s or against 1s very often - YET - and try to keep those opportunities for Heaps - FOR NOW.



Riley is more of a known. Coaches have had many opportunities last season to see Riley not only play against the ones in practice, but play in live action. They probably already have a pretty good idea of what they do and do not have in Riley Nelson. They know what throws he can and cannot make. Yes - they need to evaluate his growth since last season, especially re decison making, but much is already known.



Heaps came in totally unknown (other than being possibly the most visible recruit ever at BYU) relative to D1 readiness. They got to know him a bit in Spring, liked what they saw, and are getting to know him even better now. I would give him as much work as possible with and against the 1s to assess just what we have and how ready he is. I think this is the main reason for the disparity in 1 vs 2 reps for Heaps and Nelson.



Lark is more of a known than Heaps, but less recently known than Nelson. The fact that he is not getting into the mix with the 1s seems to indicate that Heaps is still viewed as being ahead of Lark. But if Lark continues to impress in his limited opportunities, and Heaps struggles, Lark could work into the mix a bit more - a real long-shot at this point for the UW time-frame.



Munns is just too late to the party for Sept 4. Coaches also have prior knowledge of Munns, but it is quite dated. But, he is just too late to the party - period. maybe he will show up later in the mix - not likely in 2010 - not very likley in 2011, but maybe 2012 depending on injuries, missions, early NFL defections, and the whims of the universe.



As always, I hope the lack of clear separation is because they are all so darn good. That is not clear yet either.

If we go the two QB route, my preference would be to redshirt Heaps and let Lark be the passing option.



Some might say that's because I'm a Heaps hater, but it's actually because I am a firm believer in Heaps' upside. If the kid is as good as advertised, why take one of his four years of eligibility and use it on split snaps? I would prefer getting as many full years out of him as we can.



I know people are worried about him transferring or Bronco not giving him a fair shot at the starting job next season, but both of those notions are hogwash. The first sells Heaps and his character short, and the second ignores the fact that Bronco has replaced an incumbent with an underclassman in the past.



If Heaps is going to play, raise the stakes to all in and don't monkey around with the two-QB baloney. The times it works are the exception, not the rule, and we don't have anyone on the staff with a history of making it work. If you have that little faith in Nelson's arm, but feel like you really need his legs, Lark's arm will do just fine for half of a season. Don't waste one of Heaps' years on this junk. Let him redshirt it out.