C
CDHThank you very good response with great points!!!
by SpiffCoug · 9/13/2010
IndiCoug wrote:
If you're looking for a stat here's one;
First half BYU Played two QB's and scored 14 points. Second half BYU played one QB and scored ZERO!!!!!
Put 8 men in the box and make Riley throw and what happens? Riley can't spread the defense and AF used it all second half.
Mark my words, if BYU plays Riley as the only QB for FSU or any game for that matter the same thing is going to happen.
Schmoe wrote:If you're looking for a stat here's one;
First half BYU Played two QB's and scored 14 points. Second half BYU played one QB and scored ZERO!!!!!
This is clearly a huge oversimplification.
hawkwing wrote:If you're looking for a stat here's one;
First half BYU Played two QB's and scored 14 points. Second half BYU played one QB and scored ZERO!!!!!
Put 8 men in the box and make Riley throw and what happens? Riley can't spread the defense and AF used it all second half.
Mark my words, if BYU plays Riley as the only QB for FSU or any game for that matter the same thing is going to happen.
So now even Riley's touchdowns are because of Heaps? Did the defense really not know which QB was in each drive?
kitic77 wrote:
I've been pretty consistent about my position on the QBs. Heaps is the most polished QB recruit we've ever had who is going to be an all-time great before he's done. I don't think that's going to be this year. I really wanted him to RS as I thought the Heaps of 2011-2014 would be better than the Heaps of 2010-2013. I've never thought that Riley couldn't get it done and never thought that he was as poor a thrower as he's been portrayed. Heaps is all fundamentals and mechanics. And until he gets up to speed of the D1 level, it's not going to be better than a playmaker like Nelson. I don't think Heaps would have mattered. He's yet to show any more accuracy with the downfield ball than Nelson. Sure he can get it down there, but an incompletion is still an incompletion. Eventually you have to start hitting them or the defense won't respect the long ball any more than they would with Riley who "can't throw it." I've never thought either QB was the difference between an 11-win season and 7-win one.
IndiCoug wrote:
I've been pretty consistent about my position on the QBs. Heaps is the most polished QB recruit we've ever had who is going to be an all-time great before he's done. I don't think that's going to be this year. I really wanted him to RS as I thought the Heaps of 2011-2014 would be better than the Heaps of 2010-2013. I've never thought that Riley couldn't get it done and never thought that he was as poor a thrower as he's been portrayed. Heaps is all fundamentals and mechanics. And until he gets up to speed of the D1 level, it's not going to be better than a playmaker like Nelson. I don't think Heaps would have mattered. He's yet to show any more accuracy with the downfield ball than Nelson. Sure he can get it down there, but an incompletion is still an incompletion. Eventually you have to start hitting them or the defense won't respect the long ball any more than they would with Riley who "can't throw it." I've never thought either QB was the difference between an 11-win season and 7-win one.
It's hard to say but I think you're probably correct. What would have changed is the experience factor for Heaps. He needs reps and if you have already thrown in the towel why not let Heaps in? Who knows? I don't but I expect coach to have some answers.
Go Cougars
frdbtr wrote:I went back through the PBP and came up with these "facts."
Season stats:
Heaps: 15-29-1-146, 0 TDs 87.12 rating. 51.7% complete, 0 TD drives, 2 FG drives.
Nelson: 19-36-0-204, 2 TDs, 118.71 rating, 52.8% complete, 4 TD drives, 0 FG drives.
I also broke it down by drive. Through halftime of the AF game,
Heaps: 9 drives, 17 first downs, 3 three-and-outs, 4 punts, 2 Turnovers.
Through the AF game:
Nelson: 16 drives, 24 first downs, 4 three-and-outs, 8 punts, 1 Turnover. (of note, in the 2nd half of the AF game, Riley had 5 drives, got all of 5 first downs, had 2 three-and-outs and 5 punts).
Make of it what you will. It does seem Riley was more effective before being the only QB to play, but Jake has yet to really be truly effective.
k, you just put on paper what my gut was telling me when I was watching the games. I was starting to doubt myself because I come here and everyone is talking about how bad Riley looked and how Jake was doing much better and needed to start. All I knew was that when Riley was in the game, the offense seemed to move down the field and when Jake was in the game, it appeared that it would go 3 and out most of the time. I still think that Jake's reads have been slow and he has thrown into coverage trusting on his arm strength. I still think he is going to start in the FSU game but I think there will be a short leash before Riley comes in. I am hoping that if he starts, he doesn't get yanked because the main reason I was against him starting this year is because I didn't want a freshman to start just to struggle, get yanked and lose his confidence.
IndiCoug wrote:IndiCoug wrote:
If you're looking for a stat here's one;
First half BYU Played two QB's and scored 14 points. Second half BYU played one QB and scored ZERO!!!!!
This is clearly a huge oversimplification.
How is this a "huge oversimplification"? What changed from the first half to the second? Did anyone get hurt? Did it start to rain? Did it get windier? Maybe the sun was stronger in the afternoon? What changed????
IndiCoug wrote:IndiCoug wrote:
If you're looking for a stat here's one;
First half BYU Played two QB's and scored 14 points. Second half BYU played one QB and scored ZERO!!!!!
This is clearly a huge oversimplification.
How is this a "huge oversimplification"? What changed from the first half to the second? Did anyone get hurt? Did it start to rain? Did it get windier? Maybe the sun was stronger in the afternoon? What changed????
Jake was the only change on offense, we damned the 2 QB system for some magical reason. The defense played the same from start to finish. Riley's fumble lead to a +7 by AF. Heaps interception lead to +0 for AF. It took 3 Riley possessions for AF to figure out what he was doing and what 6 plays Anea was running and adjust by daring Riley to throw by loading the box.
Riley first possession with a full field went for a TD
Rileyâs second possession with half a field also went for a TD.
Rileyâs Third possession had 4 downs and Riley fumbling.
Rileyâs forth possession was a 3 and out.
Halftime!!! â
I could go all the way through the game but Iâm focusing on what changed from 1st to 2nd half (besides nothing happened in the 2nd half ). Anyone got anything else for my âoversimplificationâ?
AF 21 points in the 1st half â7 extra points are from Rileyâs fumble
AF 14 points in the 2nd half
Did the defense really play that much worse in the 2nd half of the game as the score doesnât seem to indicate it and either do the stats.
What happened rests solely on our offense (if you want to call it that). It stagnated under Riley because he was unable to stretch the field and throw the ball. By tucking the ball after looking off the primary and hot receivers it affected not only the line but also the receivers (see thread on Chambers outburst).
By not bring in Heaps to change it up and stretch the field (major coaching error) we became an oversimplified ONE dimensional offense.
Hereâs that STATS.
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
Nelson
8/19 73 0 0
RUSHING
ATT YDS TD LG
Di Luigi
7 103 1 43
Nelson
20 95 1 24
In closing at least Bronco is righting the ship and the QB system will be situational. That means Heaps will more than likely play the majority of the snaps. We may still lose but that's ok because at least Heaps is the future and the offense will be allowed to gel around one QB.
.........Moving forward, Mendenhall said his two-quarterback system will "probably move away from 'every other series mode' and reps might become more situational."
"We need to throw the ball more effectively than we currently are. If you look at the Air Force game, we ran the ball effectively but had very little success throwing the football. The Washington game was more representative of the balance I think we're hoping to get. In order to beat Florida State,.........
Schmoe wrote:kitic77 wrote:
I've been pretty consistent about my position on the QBs. Heaps is the most polished QB recruit we've ever had who is going to be an all-time great before he's done. I don't think that's going to be this year. I really wanted him to RS as I thought the Heaps of 2011-2014 would be better than the Heaps of 2010-2013. I've never thought that Riley couldn't get it done and never thought that he was as poor a thrower as he's been portrayed. Heaps is all fundamentals and mechanics. And until he gets up to speed of the D1 level, it's not going to be better than a playmaker like Nelson. I don't think Heaps would have mattered. He's yet to show any more accuracy with the downfield ball than Nelson. Sure he can get it down there, but an incompletion is still an incompletion. Eventually you have to start hitting them or the defense won't respect the long ball any more than they would with Riley who "can't throw it." I've never thought either QB was the difference between an 11-win season and 7-win one.
It's hard to say but I think you're probably correct. What would have changed is the experience factor for Heaps. He needs reps and if you have already thrown in the towel why not let Heaps in? Who knows? I don't but I expect coach to have some answers.
Go Cougars
Wait, so you are harping on other posters who say "It wasn't Riley's fault that we didn't score in the second half, and it wouldn't have really made a difference had Heaps been in" but then you say that another poster is "probably correct" about the same assertion. Are you three sheets to the wind tonight or what?
tww wrote:
Greetings fellow Cougar fans. This is my first post on Cougar Corner but some of you may remember me from the old hang out.
After reading most all of the posts regarding the current unhappy situation that we find ourselves in, which thankfully we have not had to deal with for a good number of years, I began to notice some commonalities with the current football team and the movie "Hoosiers." When Gene Hackman becomes the new coach of the local basketball team one of the first things he does is lay down some rules of play, the big rule that miffs everyone is the requirement to pass the ball IIRC three times before shooting. To the fans it appears ineffective and slow paced. They become impatient and demand quick scoring. The prevailing argument is that you cannot score if you don't shoot the ball. When the frustrated players give in to the temptation to shoot, the fans are delighted but Gene Hackman is not pleased and draws boos from the crowed when he benches one of his best players for scoring without passing the ball first. He explains to his players that tho they may when a few games with that kind of play and that it may please the crowd, it won't when championships when they are up against better teams.
Okay, to get to my point. I believe that at this point in the season it is better for the team to come up short while refining their game than it is to repeatedly abandon their game for short term satisfaction (i.e., a couple of touchdowns). This post is not to fault Nelson, he is doing what he is sent in their to do, or so it seems from this limited vantage point. But what he is doing may account for some of the other lapses by players and coaches because Nelson, by necessity, is on his own page by himself. This results in a sort of Nelson show with everyone else, coaches included, playing guessing games and unable to figure out what will actually work and how to best do it.
If Bronco follows a "Hoosier" type of thinking, (it seems to me) that he will inevitably have to bench Nelson and let Heaps, the rest of the team and coaches work not only a game plan but a program plan. Until then the team is, as it were, retarded in its growth and cannot get better but only worse. Nelson might be a star player and might have great stats but it will take all eleven players to get the all important wins. Nelson is not leading the team, he is simply scoring. There is a difference. Heaps stats might be unimpressive for a while but the team will get better.
As I see it, it is the only way. Sorry for the long post.