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Coach Doman on Riley Nelson

by frdbtr · 9/15/2010

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Guest
If Doman keeps backing up Nelson he's going to lose his support from this board to be named offensive coordinator.
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frdbtr
hawkwing wrote:
If Doman keeps backing up Nelson he's going to lose his support from this board to be named offensive coordinator.


:lol: I can't wait to hear Bronco comment on that. "Frankly, I don't care. We are doing what is right for the program, not what is popular"
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pjmuli
frdbtr wrote:
That is a good post and I agree with you that the 2 QB experiment is a mistake. I also think that Heaps is the future. Where I disagree is that Riley can't be an effective passer since a far more knowledgable mind about offensive football (Brandon Doman) said that an offense structured for his strengths would make him an effective passer. Frankly, I was hoping that Heaps would be named the starter for the FSU game and prepared all week. I am also sick of the Nelson bashing and would like to distract fans from that right now, which naming Heaps as the starter would do that. I don't know if he would be effective or not but it seems like it would have to be more effective then trying to prepare 2 guys and then benching one during the game.


I think most of us would agree with your sentiments. I mean, if Heaps were injured for the season, all of us would hope that Riley could be prepared to be successful. In some ways, he is like Doman...and Doman was a winner. However, under Doman, the passing game never looked as futile as it did under Nelson on Saturday. Of course, having Luke Staley sure made the passing game a lot easier



The feelings and sentiments from fans are basically the first fruits of a two quarterback system. I don't like the terminology "situational" because that does not address the essence of the problem. Basically, football teams rarely (if ever) thrive with a fluid management of quarterbacking resources.



Here is my take...if we are concerned about breaking in a freshman quarterback but he is the best quarterback on the roster...then send him in the game with a vanilla gameplan, loaded with running plays and incrementally work him into the full playbook. Seems to work in other places.



Putting them in for a series or two just reeks of bad judgment...and when John Beck was a freshman, it really destroyed his confidence.



Let the Heaps era begin!!!!....please.
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jonnylingo
I don't really read those comments has doman 'supporting' nelson actually. It seems to me he is making it clear that it was not his decision. He may be signaling he disagrees with the call.



but as far as nelson being a good passer by creating plays where he can succeed passing, he still has to execute. did you see him on saturday and most other games he has started in? he doesn't check down. he goes to first maybe second guy then tucks and runs.



we are missing the point. riley is not comfortable passing, never has been, never will be. if he is going to succeed he has to improve on that. why waste our time having riley improve when jake heaps is right there on equal ground with him? That is my issue. I don't see riley executing and making passes, whether he is umcomfortable making the them or for whatever reason.
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Cougarbib
Jake Heaps is not right there on equal ground yet. Bronco has made it very clear that he thinks Heaps will be ready sometime this year but is not ready yet. Give it a rest kids. We are not that good yet - painful as it may be to deal with that reality.



I am reminded of all of the Max Hall bashing that went on last year.



Give it a rest. Let the coaches figure out how to get through this season while developing the inexperienced players.



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Ygridiron4ever
So if Jake isn't ready yet, and Riley plays and BYU losses 2 out of 4 games, how does that help Jake prepare better than if he were playing and losing those same two games, or even a third?



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snoscythe
Ygridiron4ever wrote:
So if Jake isn't ready yet, and Riley plays and BYU losses 2 out of 4 games, how does that help Jake prepare better than if he were playing and losing those same two games, or even a third?


A good point, but flawed---to use this line of thinking before the games are played, what you are doing is conceding losses before the game has been played. If that's how you make coaching decisions (by conceding losses beforehand), you belong at UNM/UNLV. Hindsight may be 20/20, but you can't use it before things happen.
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Brayden Green
snoscythe wrote:
So if Jake isn't ready yet, and Riley plays and BYU losses 2 out of 4 games, how does that help Jake prepare better than if he were playing and losing those same two games, or even a third?


A good point, but flawed---to use this line of thinking before the games are played, what you are doing is conceding losses before the game has been played. If that's how you make coaching decisions (by conceding losses beforehand), you belong at UNM/UNLV. Hindsight may be 20/20, but you can't use it before things happen.


Isn't that what we did when we kept our "mostly-running-qb" in, down two TD's, driving into a 20 mph wind, early in the 4th, when Riley had been stopped 4 straight downs?
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Mars
BlueIsBetter wrote:
Ygridiron4ever wrote:
So if Jake isn't ready yet, and Riley plays and BYU losses 2 out of 4 games, how does that help Jake prepare better than if he were playing and losing those same two games, or even a third?
A good point, but flawed---to use this line of thinking before the games are played, what you are doing is conceding losses before the game has been played. If that's how you make coaching decisions (by conceding losses beforehand), you belong at UNM/UNLV.
Isn't that what we did when we kept our "mostly-running-qb" in, down two TD's, driving into a 20 mph wind, early in the 4th, when Riley had been stopped 4 straight downs?

Yes, it is. Anae, the "Anti-McMahon", conceded the loss. He may belong at UNLV. :sulk:
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Mars
frdbtr wrote:
I agree with you that the 2 QB experiment is a mistake. I also think that Heaps is the future. Where I disagree is that Riley can't be an effective passer since a far more knowledgable mind about offensive football (Brandon Doman) said that an offense structured for his strengths would make him an effective passer...

So isntead of saying "starting a QB that can't throw is a bad idea, because now we see that the defense can simply stack 8-men in the box and easily shut that kind of offense down", like everyone else in the universe now realizes, the coaches are feeding us crap like "we spent all spring, summer, and fall putting together a gameplan that was inneffective and doesn't allow our veteran quarterback to throw the ball well, so instead of changing QBs, we just need to tweak that gameplan on Tuesday and Wednesday this week and everything will be fine for the rest of the season." BULL. SHIZ.
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frdbtr
Mars wrote:
I agree with you that the 2 QB experiment is a mistake. I also think that Heaps is the future. Where I disagree is that Riley can't be an effective passer since a far more knowledgable mind about offensive football (Brandon Doman) said that an offense structured for his strengths would make him an effective passer...

So isntead of saying "starting a QB that can't throw is a bad idea, because now we see that the defense can simply stack 8-men in the box and easily shut that kind of offense down", like everyone else in the universe now realizes, the coaches are feeding us crap like "we spent all spring, summer, and fall putting together a gameplan that was inneffective and doesn't allow our veteran quarterback to throw the ball well, so instead of changing QBs, we just need to tweak that gameplan on Tuesday and Wednesday this week and everything will be fine for the rest of the season." BULL. SHIZ.




**sigh** Did you listen to the interview? Can you show me anywhere in the media where a coach said that the game plan all summer was for Riley to run on every play? If you listen to Doman's interview you will hear that the offensive game plan on SATURDAY was bad, not what they had planned all summer. I don't think it would take a complete remake of the offense to structure a gameplan around Riley Nelson. AND, I don't think it would be hard to beat a defense with 8 stacked in the box with Riley at QB, it doesn't take a 50 yard throw to get it over the heads of 8 defenders in the box.
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Mars
frdbtr wrote:
**sigh** Did you listen to the interview? Can you show me anywhere in the media where a coach said that the game plan all summer was for Riley to run on every play? If you listen to Doman's interview you will hear that the offensive game plan on SATURDAY was bad, not what they had planned all summer. I don't think it would take a complete remake of the offense to structure a gameplan around Riley Nelson. AND, I don't think it would be hard to beat a defense with 8 stacked in the box with Riley at QB, it doesn't take a 50 yard throw to get it over the heads of 8 defenders in the box.

Sigh. I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. Your entire stance reeks of ignorance. Did BYU change Riley's package for the Air Force game? No. Did Riley run on every play against A.F.? No. Could be pass with 8 stacked in the box against the Falcons? No. Your opinions have been way off this entire week.
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Lawboy
I h eard the interview, and I take issue with 1 huge part of it. That is the notion that the coaches need to put Riley in a better position to succeed. Sorry, but for a program that teaches TEAM first, that falls really flat for me. The goal is to put the TEAM in a better position to succeed, and you do that with personnel choices and game plan. Does BYU have the personnel around Riley to help him thrive, or is the personnel better suited for Jake? Based upon years of recruiting, years of offensive play calling, history, tradition and expectation, changing all that for Riley is a mistake. I get making changes can work as it did with Doman. But Riley is no Doman. Doman passed 4 times to every 1 time he ran. And that is a high ration for a BYU QB. Riley runs 1 time for every throw, which is an outrageous ratio. People want to compare the 2, but it is futile, because Doman was a much better BYU QB for the offensive system. The QB who can best utitlize the talent BYU has put together is Jake Heaps. That is, unless we want to pull a RichRod and go from a more pro style, ball control to a spread and nuke the team for 2 years. And I do not see that as an option. Heaps needs more reps. Riley's poor play has earned him that much.
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pjmuli
Lawboy wrote:
I h eard the interview, and I take issue with 1 huge part of it. That is the notion that the coaches need to put Riley in a better position to succeed. Sorry, but for a program that teaches TEAM first, that falls really flat for me. The goal is to put the TEAM in a better position to succeed, and you do that with personnel choices and game plan. Does BYU have the personnel around Riley to help him thrive, or is the personnel better suited for Jake? Based upon years of recruiting, years of offensive play calling, history, tradition and expectation, changing all that for Riley is a mistake. I get making changes can work as it did with Doman. But Riley is no Doman. Doman passed 4 times to every 1 time he ran. And that is a high ration for a BYU QB. Riley runs 1 time for every throw, which is an outrageous ratio. People want to compare the 2, but it is futile, because Doman was a much better BYU QB for the offensive system. The QB who can best utitlize the talent BYU has put together is Jake Heaps. That is, unless we want to pull a RichRod and go from a more pro style, ball control to a spread and nuke the team for 2 years. And I do not see that as an option. Heaps needs more reps. Riley's poor play has earned him that much.


Strong post.



Bronco alludes to Nelson's ability to lead and inspire the rest of the team...and I understand the value of that commodity...but at the AF game, that leadership did nothing for the offense after the first quarter.



Bronco also suggested in his interview last night that Nelson has "an accurate arm." I made me wonder if I am missing something because all during spring and fall camps, I kept hearing about Nelson throwing the ball at the feet of the receiver and receivers dropping Heaps passes all over the place.



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snoscythe
pjmuli wrote:
Bronco also suggested in his interview last night that Nelson has "an accurate arm." I made me wonder if I am missing something because all during spring and fall camps, I kept hearing about Nelson throwing the ball at the feet of the receiver and receivers dropping Heaps passes all over the place.


Bronco is obviously far less wise/observant than many of our esteemed CC posters. :roll:
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frdbtr
Mars wrote:
**sigh** Did you listen to the interview? Can you show me anywhere in the media where a coach said that the game plan all summer was for Riley to run on every play? If you listen to Doman's interview you will hear that the offensive game plan on SATURDAY was bad, not what they had planned all summer. I don't think it would take a complete remake of the offense to structure a gameplan around Riley Nelson. AND, I don't think it would be hard to beat a defense with 8 stacked in the box with Riley at QB, it doesn't take a 50 yard throw to get it over the heads of 8 defenders in the box.

Sigh. I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. Your entire stance reeks of ignorance. Did BYU change Riley's package for the Air Force game? No. Did Riley run on every play against A.F.? No. Could be pass with 8 stacked in the box against the Falcons? No. Your opinions have been way off this entire week.


My opinions in this thread have been based COMPLETELY on what I heard coach Doman say in his interview. I say again....did you listen to the interview?
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frdbtr
snoscythe wrote:
Bronco also suggested in his interview last night that Nelson has "an accurate arm." I made me wonder if I am missing something because all during spring and fall camps, I kept hearing about Nelson throwing the ball at the feet of the receiver and receivers dropping Heaps passes all over the place.


Bronco is obviously far less wise/observant than many of our esteemed CC posters. :roll:


Not only that but what he was hearing is obviously more accurate then what Bronco is seeing. :roll:
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frdbtr
pjmuli wrote:
Bronco also suggested in his interview last night that Nelson has "an accurate arm." I made me wonder if I am missing something because all during spring and fall camps, I kept hearing about Nelson throwing the ball at the feet of the receiver and receivers dropping Heaps passes all over the place.



J


Did you know that in the fall camp stats, Riley had a higher completion percentage then Heaps?
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tdawg
I didn't get a chance to watch the game so perhaps I am missing somehting. What I wonder is, What did heaps do in the AF game that tells us he should be the one taking the snaps this week? Neither one played very well from what I understand, but under Nelson they scored twice. What I would like to see from Heaps is a performance that demands he be played in front of Nelson. Until that happens I see both QB's playing and splitting snaps.
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snoscythe
tdawg wrote:
I didn't get a chance to watch the game so perhaps I am missing somehting. What I wonder is, What did heaps do in the AF game that tells us he should be the one taking the snaps this week? Neither one played very well from what I understand, but under Nelson they scored twice. What I would like to see from Heaps is a performance that demands he be played in front of Nelson. Until that happens I see both QB's playing and splitting snaps.


You have to go back to high school to find Heaps performing at a level that demands he be played in front of Nelson.....except Nelson was more prolific/efficient in HS too.
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