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Coach Doman on Riley Nelson

by frdbtr · 9/15/2010

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Lawboy
BYU would have scored with Heaps had JJ not fumbled mid stride at the 5. And the other part is that Riley stunk it up for 3 quarters once AFA adjusted their schemes for his abilities. The last part is if he 2 are so equal, it is time to give Jake his full half on his own to see what he can do.
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jonnylingo
snoscythe wrote:
I didn't get a chance to watch the game so perhaps I am missing somehting. What I wonder is, What did heaps do in the AF game that tells us he should be the one taking the snaps this week? Neither one played very well from what I understand, but under Nelson they scored twice. What I would like to see from Heaps is a performance that demands he be played in front of Nelson. Until that happens I see both QB's playing and splitting snaps.


You have to go back to high school to find Heaps performing at a level that demands he be played in front of Nelson.....except Nelson was more prolific/efficient in HS too.


That is pretty flimsy however with only two games under our belts. I think Heaps performed just as good as nelson in the washington game. nelson sucked in the air force game. heaps didn't even really get a chance there but while he was in we should have had an obvious touchdown.



you keep claiming riley has completely outperformed jake and that jake hasn't shown anything. I think its true and you can't deny that while nelson has had more touchdowns have been scored but your are discrediting heaps to a greater degree than the facts allow if you are looking at those stats in context.
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Brayden Green
You are all right. Riley is the answer, and Jake hasn't done anything. He hasn't proven a thing at all. He sucks beyond all reason, and for Jake to even take one more of Riley's breaths is an affront against nature.



That is exactly why Riley hasn't beat him out given every opportunity since spring.
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snoscythe
jonnylingo wrote:
tdawg wrote:
I didn't get a chance to watch the game so perhaps I am missing somehting. What I wonder is, What did heaps do in the AF game that tells us he should be the one taking the snaps this week? Neither one played very well from what I understand, but under Nelson they scored twice. What I would like to see from Heaps is a performance that demands he be played in front of Nelson. Until that happens I see both QB's playing and splitting snaps.


You have to go back to high school to find Heaps performing at a level that demands he be played in front of Nelson.....except Nelson was more prolific/efficient in HS too.


That is pretty flimsy however with only two games under our belts. I think Heaps performed just as good as nelson in the washington game. nelson sucked in the air force game. heaps didn't even really get a chance there but while he was in we should have had an obvious touchdown.



you keep claiming riley has completely outperformed jake and that jake hasn't shown anything. I think its true and you can't deny that while nelson has had more touchdowns have been scored but your are discrediting heaps to a greater degree than the facts allow if you are looking at those stats in context.


Again, the question is--"what has heaps done that demands he be played in front of Nelson?" The answer is simply nothing. He has shown promise and potential, but he has also shown an unfamiliarity with the playbook that kills drives as much as any play-calling from the booth. Yet, that gets overlooked in your "context" where all you try to do is explain away his inability to produce without acknowledging part of it might just be the fact that the kid isn't ready....yet.
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Lawboy
Given the chance Riley got to play the whole of he 2nd half, and how poorly he performed, what has Riley done to prevent giving Jake that same chance tp play a whole half or game to see what he can do? Answer is nothing as well. Nothing at all.
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snoscythe
Lawboy wrote:
Given the chance Riley got to play the whole of he 2nd half, and how poorly he performed, what has Riley done to prevent giving Jake that same chance tp play a whole half or game to see what he can do? Answer is nothing as well. Nothing at all.


Riley earned his chance to play an entire half by outplaying Heaps in the first half. Again, Heaps hasn't done anything to demand his shot yet. As bad as Nelson was, he still had the better day in Colorado Springs.
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Lawboy
snoscythe wrote:
Given the chance Riley got to play the whole of he 2nd half, and how poorly he performed, what has Riley done to prevent giving Jake that same chance tp play a whole half or game to see what he can do? Answer is nothing as well. Nothing at all.


Riley earned his chance to play an entire half by outplaying Heaps in the first half. Again, Heaps hasn't done anything to demand his shot yet. As bad as Nelson was, he still had the better day in Colorado Springs.


And the problem is that you are satisfied that it as being good enough to let him keep the chance. Just no. Absolutely not. I am sorry, but I am not content with the back up QB from USU starting at BYU this year. No, it is not good enough. Heaps needs to be given more chances to learn and get it done, for this year and beyond.
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Brayden Green
snoscythe wrote:
Given the chance Riley got to play the whole of he 2nd half, and how poorly he performed, what has Riley done to prevent giving Jake that same chance tp play a whole half or game to see what he can do? Answer is nothing as well. Nothing at all.


Riley earned his chance to play an entire half by outplaying Heaps in the first half. Again, Heaps hasn't done anything to demand his shot yet. As bad as Nelson was, he still had the better day in Colorado Springs.


Jake's first series was throw-throw-throw (give up on the catch, ashworth), punt.



Second ended in a fumble on the 5.



Third was an interception (on yet again, a first down throw)





Yeah, he really had a shot to prove "grit and determination". Meanwhile Riley's grit and determination was causing fumbles, and overlooking receivers, and showing exactly what you shouldn't do as a quarterback in all aspects in the second half.



I really can't see how you can stand by a pathetic coaching and quarterbacking effort, and want to see more of it, when it is the exact opposite of what we have been trying to build in the last 30 years.



Talk about kicking against the pricks...
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snoscythe
Lawboy wrote:
Lawboy wrote:
Given the chance Riley got to play the whole of he 2nd half, and how poorly he performed, what has Riley done to prevent giving Jake that same chance tp play a whole half or game to see what he can do? Answer is nothing as well. Nothing at all.


Riley earned his chance to play an entire half by outplaying Heaps in the first half. Again, Heaps hasn't done anything to demand his shot yet. As bad as Nelson was, he still had the better day in Colorado Springs.


And the problem is that you are satisfied that it as being good enough to let him keep the chance. Just no. Absolutely not. I am sorry, but I am not content with the back up QB from USU starting at BYU this year. No, it is not good enough. Heaps needs to be given more chances to learn and get it done, for this year and beyond.


The problem with that line of reasoning is this--Heaps has yet to outperform that backup QB from USU, regardless of how miserable he has played. Until he can beat out a backup QB from USU, he doesn't deserve any more snaps than what he's been getting.
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IndiCoug
snoscythe wrote:
Given the chance Riley got to play the whole of he 2nd half, and how poorly he performed, what has Riley done to prevent giving Jake that same chance tp play a whole half or game to see what he can do? Answer is nothing as well. Nothing at all.


Riley earned his chance to play an entire half by outplaying Heaps in the first half. Again, Heaps hasn't done anything to demand his shot yet. As bad as Nelson was, he still had the better day in Colorado Springs.

:lol: :lol: You're joking right?? Wow, nelson was horrible after 1st quarter AF adjustments on D. You're losing respect the further you take this snoscythe.

I think come saturday afternoon we'll hopefully be able to have more info on both QB's (baring coaches pull another AF).
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snoscythe
BlueIsBetter wrote:
Lawboy wrote:
Given the chance Riley got to play the whole of he 2nd half, and how poorly he performed, what has Riley done to prevent giving Jake that same chance tp play a whole half or game to see what he can do? Answer is nothing as well. Nothing at all.


Riley earned his chance to play an entire half by outplaying Heaps in the first half. Again, Heaps hasn't done anything to demand his shot yet. As bad as Nelson was, he still had the better day in Colorado Springs.


Jake's first series was throw-throw-throw (give up on the catch, ashworth), punt.



Second ended in a fumble on the 5.



Third was an interception (on yet again, a first down throw)





Yeah, he really had a shot to prove "grit and determination". Meanwhile Riley's grit and determination was causing fumbles, and overlooking receivers, and showing exactly what you shouldn't do as a quarterback in all aspects in the second half.



I really can't see how you can stand by a pathetic coaching and quarterbacking effort.



Talk about kicking against the pricks...


Once again, blaming everyone else for Heaps mistakes. Riley has outperformed him with the same coaches, the same players, even as bad as Riley has played. When a player does poorly, you don't bench him for an even worse option. I've never said Riley played well in the second half--all I'm trying to do is remind you that Heaps sat the second-half for a reason. He sucked it up in the first half as badly as Nelson did in the second half.



I guess I am kicking against pricks---people so blinded by Heaps-lust that they can't stand to see his flaws.
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Brayden Green
I knew that you would turn that joke around, but right now, you are the joke...



Do you know where the terminology came from?



You would have mules that would pull the carts back in ancient days, (bible on up) that would get tired of pulling the carts, and would just start kicking. So they put sharp sticks on the front of the carts, so that if the mules would kick back, they would hit those. That is what you are doing right now. Throwing a fit that your man got absolutely pummeled, and lashing out at anyone around you. But like the jackass in the story, you are only really hurting yourself.
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Lawboy
No, what people are so upset by is the fact that Heaps did not get a chance in the 2nd half after seeing Riley play so poorly in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. And by poorly, we mean poorly. If it was a 2 QB deal, give the other kid the chance and the coaches stubborness was an issue. Heaps is the future, so give the future a chance. Is it that hard to understand? Nelson sucked tail pipe. He was bad. What is the risk there in giving the freshman a chance to bring new energy, a different skill set to challenge what AFA was doing, and let him learn on the field, since the RS is blown? Answer that.
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snoscythe
Riley Nelson v. AFA in the second half:



6 completions on 12 attempts for 41 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT--PER 78.7



Jake Heaps v. AFA:



2 completions on 6 attempts for 15 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT--PER 21





As bad as Nelson may have stunk it up in the second half after AFA made adjustments, his second half was still a better passing display than Heaps' before AFA made adjustments.



Don't lose sight of that as you clamor for Heaps to start.
B
Brayden Green
snoscythe wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
Given the chance Riley got to play the whole of he 2nd half, and how poorly he performed, what has Riley done to prevent giving Jake that same chance tp play a whole half or game to see what he can do? Answer is nothing as well. Nothing at all.


Riley earned his chance to play an entire half by outplaying Heaps in the first half. Again, Heaps hasn't done anything to demand his shot yet. As bad as Nelson was, he still had the better day in Colorado Springs.


Jake's first series was throw-throw-throw (give up on the catch, ashworth), punt.



Second ended in a fumble on the 5.



Third was an interception (on yet again, a first down throw)





Yeah, he really had a shot to prove "grit and determination". Meanwhile Riley's grit and determination was causing fumbles, and overlooking receivers, and showing exactly what you shouldn't do as a quarterback in all aspects in the second half.



I really can't see how you can stand by a pathetic coaching and quarterbacking effort.



Talk about kicking against the pricks...


Once again, blaming everyone else for Heaps mistakes. Riley has outperformed him with the same coaches, the same players, even as bad as Riley has played. When a player does poorly, you don't bench him for an even worse option. I've never said Riley played well in the second half--all I'm trying to do is remind you that Heaps sat the second-half for a reason. He sucked it up in the first half as badly as Nelson did in the second half.



I guess I am kicking against pricks---people so blinded by Heaps-lust that they can't stand to see his flaws.


blaming everyone else? really, where. I didn't know when you state actual fact that you are blaming things on other people.



Fact: ashworth gave up on the play on third down, and it was a deep pass very catchable.

Fact: JJ/Chambers combo fumbled into the endzone stalling the drive.

Fact: Jake threw the INT, but the playcalling has been terrible for him. Any time he has had balanced playcalling, they have driven the field, show me different.



So put it all on Heaps, but give Riley all the credit. Seems stacked to me.
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IndiCoug
snoscythe wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
Given the chance Riley got to play the whole of he 2nd half, and how poorly he performed, what has Riley done to prevent giving Jake that same chance tp play a whole half or game to see what he can do? Answer is nothing as well. Nothing at all.


Riley earned his chance to play an entire half by outplaying Heaps in the first half. Again, Heaps hasn't done anything to demand his shot yet. As bad as Nelson was, he still had the better day in Colorado Springs.


Jake's first series was throw-throw-throw (give up on the catch, ashworth), punt.



Second ended in a fumble on the 5.



Third was an interception (on yet again, a first down throw)





Yeah, he really had a shot to prove "grit and determination". Meanwhile Riley's grit and determination was causing fumbles, and overlooking receivers, and showing exactly what you shouldn't do as a quarterback in all aspects in the second half.



I really can't see how you can stand by a pathetic coaching and quarterbacking effort.



Talk about kicking against the pricks...


Once again, blaming everyone else for Heaps mistakes. Riley has outperformed him with the same coaches, the same players, even as bad as Riley has played. When a player does poorly, you don't bench him for an even worse option. I've never said Riley played well in the second half--all I'm trying to do is remind you that Heaps sat the second-half for a reason. He sucked it up in the first half as badly as Nelson did in the second half.

I guess I am kicking against pricks---people so blinded by Heaps-lust that they can't stand to see his flaws.

Did you watch the game??? :bug: Wow, your comparision is off base.

1. JJ fumbled Heaps drive on the 5 yard line

2. Heaps threw and interception that resulted in ZERO points for AF. Riley fumbled the ball which resulted in +7 for AF which let to them going in at half up by seven.

3. Play calling for Heaps has been terrible. We didn't even throw 4 times in a row with Max. If they would playcall for Heaps the way they did for Max last year he would be ok. (I'm saying rushing vs. passing)

4. Nelson nearly throws interceptions on the 4th and 5th play of the game.





I don't see where you're coming. Heaps looked ok in the first half of the game but Nelson look horid in the second!! And it wasn't even close!
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snoscythe
IndiCoug wrote:
Heaps looked ok in the first half of the game but Nelson look horid in the second!! And it wasn't even close!


Wasn't even close? When you take your blinders off and look at what they accomplished, it's ugly.



Riley Nelson v. AFA in the second half:



6 completions on 12 attempts for 41 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT--PER 78.7



Jake Heaps v. AFA:



2 completions on 6 attempts for 15 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT--PER 21





As bad as Nelson may have stunk it up in the second half after AFA made adjustments, his second half was still a better passing display than Heaps' before AFA made adjustments.



Don't lose sight of that as you clamor for Heaps to start.
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IndiCoug
snoscythe wrote:
Heaps looked ok in the first half of the game but Nelson look horid in the second!! And it wasn't even close!


Wasn't even close? When you take your blinders off and look at what they accomplished, it's ugly.



Riley Nelson v. AFA in the second half:



6 completions on 12 attempts for 41 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT--PER 78.7



Jake Heaps v. AFA:



2 completions on 6 attempts for 15 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT--PER 21





As bad as Nelson may have stunk it up in the second half after AFA made adjustments, his second half was still a better passing display than Heaps' before AFA made adjustments.



Don't lose sight of that as you clamor for Heaps to start.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Believe what you want. Oh, and your stats tell me everything I need to know about how each QB handled the pass rush. Your Boy Riley would have terrible stats if he hadn't tucked and run every other play. He would have had 6 completions on 25 attempts. You should ask Bronco for a job as a Stat man. :lol: :lol: :lol:

PLEASE :roll:
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Mars
Lawboy wrote:
I h eard the interview, and I take issue with 1 huge part of it. That is the notion that the coaches need to put Riley in a better position to succeed. Sorry, but for a program that teaches TEAM first, that falls really flat for me. The goal is to put the TEAM in a better position to succeed, and you do that with personnel choices and game plan. Does BYU have the personnel around Riley to help him thrive, or is the personnel better suited for Jake? Based upon years of recruiting, years of offensive play calling, history, tradition and expectation, changing all that for Riley is a mistake. I get making changes can work as it did with Doman. But Riley is no Doman. Doman passed 4 times to every 1 time he ran. And that is a high ration for a BYU QB. Riley runs 1 time for every throw, which is an outrageous ratio...



The QB who can best utitlize the talent BYU has put together is Jake Heaps. That is, unless we want to pull a RichRod and go from a more pro style, ball control to a spread and nuke the team for 2 years. And I do not see that as an option. Heaps needs more reps. Riley's poor play has earned him that much.

Great post.
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i am just saying
As a former player; I just can't believe that anyone who watches with a critical eye can't see that Jake is by far the superior quarterback for the BYU system. I watched these guys throw for weeks before the season started and it isn't even close.



Let me be clear that I love Riley as a football player. However, Jake is so much further ahead with talent that it is almost laughable. Bronco might not remember, but Ty Detmer through multiple interceptions in his first game against Wyoming on ESPN and we lost the game. It didn't bother the kid one bit and it didn't send the coaches into a panic talking about "trust".



Why didn't they recruit Riley out of high school? It is simple, he didn't fit the system. He was the same tough nosed, winner who led the nation in touchdowns. However, when he graduated highschool, he couldn't make the throws needed to fit the system which is why they invested in Lark. They recruited Riley later because they had not signed Heaps yet and the only QB's in the program worth a darn was Lark a freshman and Munns a freshman. Riley is the INSURANCE policy.



Bronco, I absolutely love you for what you have done for our school and I will support you even though you are making a huge mistake on this one. I'm not sure why you are being so flighty on this and so stubborn. Give the kid at least a quarter at Florida State and start preparing him for what has to be the decision later in the season. It is inevitable.



I'm just saying.
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