CougarCorner
Sign in
Archived Topic

Spelling hope: H E A P S

by pjmuli · 9/26/2010

Sponsored Advertisementad content
S
Schmoe
jonnylingo wrote:
No play call will work if the players fail to execute, like in this situation.


This was not a case where the players didn't execute. Bronco saw that they had an extra player there but he didn't call time out and decided to go ahead anyway.


As it was designed to be a quick-snap play, personnel changes were not going to be made. Mike Hague and Kariya were the backs in play. The play call was a short-side sweep. After the game, head coach Bronco Mendenhall told us the anticipation was that UNR would not have the edge sealed, but an additional 'Pack player was present and the play ran out of room. Additionally, Mendenhall said the play took longer than designed to set up, eliminating its "quick snap" characteristic.



At such a key juncture, there was clearly uncertainly about BYU's ability to run that play successfully, yet the play was run anyway. Kariya could fairly be called an unconventional choice to run a short-side sweep, but on his previous carry, he had run for seven yards behind Zed Mendenhall.


These are wrubell's after hte interview comments. listen to the actualy interview and wrubell is nicely saying, WHY DIDN'T YOU CALL TIME OUT WHEN YOU SAW THAT THEY HAD THE EDGE SEALED OFF! They had the edge sealed but bronco or anea instaed of calling time out and reconsidering went ahead with the play. it wasn't execution that was the problem. it was a horrible play call.


I'm talking about the 3rd and 4 where Heaps missed a wide open Kariya, probably for a TD. Reading comprehension.
B
Brayden Green
Schmoe wrote:
No play call will work if the players fail to execute, like in this situation.


This was not a case where the players didn't execute. Bronco saw that they had an extra player there but he didn't call time out and decided to go ahead anyway.


As it was designed to be a quick-snap play, personnel changes were not going to be made. Mike Hague and Kariya were the backs in play. The play call was a short-side sweep. After the game, head coach Bronco Mendenhall told us the anticipation was that UNR would not have the edge sealed, but an additional 'Pack player was present and the play ran out of room. Additionally, Mendenhall said the play took longer than designed to set up, eliminating its "quick snap" characteristic.



At such a key juncture, there was clearly uncertainly about BYU's ability to run that play successfully, yet the play was run anyway. Kariya could fairly be called an unconventional choice to run a short-side sweep, but on his previous carry, he had run for seven yards behind Zed Mendenhall.


These are wrubell's after hte interview comments. listen to the actualy interview and wrubell is nicely saying, WHY DIDN'T YOU CALL TIME OUT WHEN YOU SAW THAT THEY HAD THE EDGE SEALED OFF! They had the edge sealed but bronco or anea instaed of calling time out and reconsidering went ahead with the play. it wasn't execution that was the problem. it was a horrible play call.


I'm talking about the 3rd and 4 where Heaps missed a wide open Kariya, probably for a TD. Reading comprehension.


not for a TD.
S
Schmoe
BlueIsBetter wrote:
jonnylingo wrote:
No play call will work if the players fail to execute, like in this situation.


This was not a case where the players didn't execute. Bronco saw that they had an extra player there but he didn't call time out and decided to go ahead anyway.


As it was designed to be a quick-snap play, personnel changes were not going to be made. Mike Hague and Kariya were the backs in play. The play call was a short-side sweep. After the game, head coach Bronco Mendenhall told us the anticipation was that UNR would not have the edge sealed, but an additional 'Pack player was present and the play ran out of room. Additionally, Mendenhall said the play took longer than designed to set up, eliminating its "quick snap" characteristic.



At such a key juncture, there was clearly uncertainly about BYU's ability to run that play successfully, yet the play was run anyway. Kariya could fairly be called an unconventional choice to run a short-side sweep, but on his previous carry, he had run for seven yards behind Zed Mendenhall.


These are wrubell's after hte interview comments. listen to the actualy interview and wrubell is nicely saying, WHY DIDN'T YOU CALL TIME OUT WHEN YOU SAW THAT THEY HAD THE EDGE SEALED OFF! They had the edge sealed but bronco or anea instaed of calling time out and reconsidering went ahead with the play. it wasn't execution that was the problem. it was a horrible play call.


I'm talking about the 3rd and 4 where Heaps missed a wide open Kariya, probably for a TD. Reading comprehension.


not for a TD.


Debatable, he had a lot of open field in front of him.
B
Brayden Green
Schmoe wrote:
Schmoe wrote:



I'm talking about the 3rd and 4 where Heaps missed a wide open Kariya, probably for a TD. Reading comprehension.


not for a TD.


Debatable, he had a lot of open field in front of him.


Yes it is, and yes he did. But it isn't the first time he has had a lot of open field and only gotten a couple yards. I remember clearly against Florida State him running a sweep, and nobody there, and as he turned the corner got tackled by about 4 guys. Wrubell even announced "A lot of open field in front of him." and then he almost got tackled for a loss. He spent 3-4 seconds getting around the tackle...



So... Open? YES! For a first? YES! For a TD? Probably Not.



And it also begs the question, if he was out for a pass, who was pass protecting? Our O line? HAH!
S
Schmoe
BlueIsBetter wrote:
BlueIsBetter wrote:



I'm talking about the 3rd and 4 where Heaps missed a wide open Kariya, probably for a TD. Reading comprehension.


not for a TD.


Debatable, he had a lot of open field in front of him.


Yes it is, and yes he did. But it isn't the first time he has had a lot of open field and only gotten a couple yards.


You are correct, that is why I put the word "probably" in my statement, whereas yours was an absolute certainty, which you can't know, because the pass was not completed (unless you meant "not for a TD because the pass was incomplete and you can't get a TD on an incomplete pass, but that would be almost pointless to post on a football thread because everyone already knows that so I'm going to assume that you meant "had the pass been completed it still certain that it would not have been a TD" since that's the one you seem to be running with anyway. So can I assume that I'm correct in my assumption?).
Sponsored Advertisementad content
B
Brayden Green
Schmoe wrote:
Schmoe wrote:
Schmoe wrote:



I'm talking about the 3rd and 4 where Heaps missed a wide open Kariya, probably for a TD. Reading comprehension.


not for a TD.


Debatable, he had a lot of open field in front of him.


Yes it is, and yes he did. But it isn't the first time he has had a lot of open field and only gotten a couple yards.


You are correct, that is why I put the word "probably" in my statement, whereas yours was an absolute certainty, which you can't know, because the pass was not completed (unless you meant "not for a TD because the pass was incomplete and you can't get a TD on an incomplete pass, but that would be almost pointless to post on a football thread because everyone already knows that so I'm going to assume that you meant "had the pass been completed it still certain that it would not have been a TD" since that's the one you seem to be running with anyway. So can I assume that I'm correct in my assumption?).


Ah, but I put "probably" in there. So how can you be certain of me thinking something is certain when the only thing that is certain is that I put the word "probably" there.



It looks like we are arguing conjectures again, but why wouldn't we? Have to keep these threads going somehow... :)



i'm bored...
M
Mars
Italics wrote:
Mars, stop quoting people I have ignored!!!

I feel the same way whenever someone quotes urroner.
M
Mars
Schmoe wrote:
For the record, I agree with what I see Mars posting
Well Mars, it was a good debate, but this settles it, you must be wrong.

There aren't many arguments I can't disagree with, but... well done sir.
M
Mars
Schmoe wrote:
No play call will work if the players fail to execute, like in this situation.

By the way, for the sake of agreement, I wasn't saying that Heaps>Coaches, I was saying that it's the coaches' job to realize that Heaps' level of execution isn't good enough yet to rely on him passing so much on 3rd down... if their play call gets a guy wide open or not. JJ and Juice are executing better more consistently for these situations.
M
Mars
Mars wrote:
Mars wrote:
BYU is converting over 60% of 3rd downs where they run the ball. 2 of 3 against Nevada.

BYU is converting about 20% of passing 3rd down. 3 of 12 against Nevada.
Stats are interesting when completely ignoring context. Most of the time (not all, but logic would tell you) you're of course going to see teams running on 3rd down when they are in short yardage situations (1-3 yards), and therefore they are more likely to get it. Passing on 3rd down is typically going to of course be reserved for longer yardage situations. Reason would tell you that this might have at least a LITTLE to do with why teams may be more successful converting 3rd downs by running the ball.
Look up the context for once. You'll be surprised.

BTW, if you ever read anything from Greg Wrubell, he's been on a 3rd-down stats kicks for weeks now. He's written multiple articles about it. Those provide all the context in the world.



For example, check out the handy-dandy Tweet box on the right.



"More third-down numbers: 3rd-and-5 or shorter, BYU is 16/33 (48%). 3rd-and-6 or longer, BYU is 4/28 (14%)."

"When running on 3rd-and-5 or shorter, BYU has converted 9/12 attempts. (75%). When passing on 3rd-and-6 or longer, BYU is 3/24 (13%)."



Both under 6 yards and over 5 yards, the running percentage is higher.
Sponsored Advertisementad content
C
Cougarbib
So that begs the question for all the people on the Young Talent bandwagon. How is Heaps going to develop the ability, by having the game slow down for him in the heat and battle of 3rd and 4th down, if you don't call his number, let him try to make the throws, and pray that he is learning. You can't gave it both ways. Heaps canno learn how to deal with throwing on 3rd and 4 unless you let him keep trying it until he gets good at it. And you cannot teach it in practice. He can already do it in practice.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
L
Lawboy
Success and points are the best teacher. BYU needs more of both right now, and the confidence for Jake will come. Right now, we do not need him to win games for us, just to manage them. I think that is the best lesson any young QB can learn. So far, he has managed ok in that he is not turning it over, but he is not moving the chains enough with his arm either. So perhaps we run more, throw a little less, use the current team make up more now and let him grow into the job. If that is what it takes to get us to 7-5, I am all for it.
B
Brayden Green
Cougarbib2 wrote:
So that begs the question for all the people on the Young Talent bandwagon. How is Heaps going to develop the ability, by having the game slow down for him in the heat and battle of 3rd and 4th down, if you don't call his number, let him try to make the throws, and pray that he is learning. You can't gave it both ways. Heaps canno learn how to deal with throwing on 3rd and 4 unless you let him keep trying it until he gets good at it. And you cannot teach it in practice. He can already do it in practice.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Being in the game more, and leading scoring drives will calm his nerves. Right now doing throw throw throw punt we are just throwing him into the fire. We need to ease him in.
C
Cougarbib
Interesting that u think we r doing throw, throw, throw punt. And yet JJ got 70 yards or so even though he was Injured, and Juice got some carries, and even Kariya got a few.



Anybody want to count the running plays - especially before we got down 17 points.



If we keep getting down 17 points, Heaps needs to learn by doing what you do when down 17 points. Now that Heaps is the man and needs to learn quickly - he just needs lots of reps to figure out stepping up not back in the pocket and throwing off the front not the back foot when you feel or see pressure and releasing the ball before getting stripped or sacked even though he knows he is going to get hit over and over again. That is the job description and he is a prototypical BYU QB. He may even need to take off running once in a while when things break down even though that risks injury. And yes, they better mix in draws and other running plays about 50% when we are not playing from behind too many points so teams can't adjust and stop us.



Do any of you really think you have seen any indication that we can run at will when the opponent knows we are going to run? Well - maybe vs USU, but that is a big assumption. But if USU has to worry about comp,teed passes, occasional scrambles, draws, play-action, and runners running or catching - we r back in business.



If I were an opponent game planning BYU this Friday, my game plan would be to stop the run and make Heaps beat me with accurate throws. Hopefully Heaps is more ready to do that and USU is less capable of stop g the run than our other opponents have been.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
B
Brayden Green
Cougarbib2 wrote:
Interesting that u think we r doing throw, throw, throw punt. And yet JJ got 70 yards or so even though he was Injured, and Juice got some carries, and even Kariya got a few.



Anybody want to count the running plays - especially before we got down 17 points.



If we keep getting down 17 points, Heaps needs to learn by doing what you do when down 17 points. Now that Heaps is the man and needs to learn quickly - he just needs lots of reps to figure out stepping up not back in the pocket and throwing off the front not the back foot when you feel or see pressure and releasing the ball before getting stripped or sacked even though he knows he is going to get hit over and over again. That is the job description and he is a prototypical BYU QB. He may even need to take off running once in a while when things break down even though that risks injury. And yes, they better mix in draws and other running plays about 50% when we are not playing from behind too many points so teams can't adjust and stop us.



Do any of you really think you have seen any indication that we can run at will when the opponent knows we are going to run? Well - maybe vs USU, but that is a big assumption. But if USU has to worry about comp,teed passes, occasional scrambles, draws, play-action, and runners running or catching - we r back in business.



If I were an opponent game planning BYU this Friday, my game plan would be to stop the run and make Heaps beat me with accurate throws. Hopefully Heaps is more ready to do that and USU is less capable of stop g the run than our other opponents have been.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


I was referring to when they split the qb reps. The playcalling was pretty balanced the first quarter of the Nevada game.



And committing to stopping the run (in other words, run man coverage instead of zone) would be the dumbest thing they could do. What they want to do is zone coverage all over the place, with blitzes coming from different places on the field. If you are sending people to stop the run, or at the very least creeping up, and going man, that would be a heavensent provided our receivers can get separation and run crisp routes. What you are describing would be the best thing for Jake, not the worst.
Sponsored Advertisementad content
C
Cougarbib
It would be the best thing to do until a QB who keeps missing receivers and receivers who keep dropping passes prove they can throw for over 100 yards in a game and get into the end zone. And, yes, I would bring pressure on Heaps, especially on 3rd and 4.



If Heaps starts hitting the receivers and they start catching - then I adjust. But I would mix it up enough to keep Heaps guessing early - but mostly stop the run until Heaps delivered.



I think Heaps will deliver - wouldn't bet my farm on it - but I think he steps up enough that USU has to adjust and then JJ and Juice get big rushing yards in the 2nd half.



If USU focuses on stopping the fade routes - BYU will run all over them the entire game and they know that. I would make Heaps figure out how to hit a tightened, throw a fade, or hit a sideline pass in bounds until he starts doing it - which he may do. Then, if he starts doing it - my goose is cooked no matter what I do - because the BYU offense is back.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
B
Brayden Green
Cougarbib2 wrote:
It would be the best thing to do until a QB who keeps missing receivers and receivers who keep dropping passes prove they can throw for over 100 yards in a game and get into the end zone. And, yes, I would bring pressure on Heaps, especially on 3rd and 4.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


Maybe I need to check my math, but I thought that 200 was more then 100. Do you guys use the metric system in Hawaii? ;)



You want to mix up coverages, and keep him guessing, not give him straight up man coverage. It's not that Heaps can't physically throw the ball, he is not mentally up to speed with the college game yet. So you want to keep in his head, wondering where the blitz is coming from, and who is going to drop back, etc. Man coverage would be death for USU, because our receivers should be good enough to get separation against them. Keep him guessing. I am hoping that the aggies do what you suggest though, we'll throw for 300 and run for another 200 with what you are saying.
Page 3 of 3
This is an archived topic from the original CougarCorner forum. New replies are not accepted.