Heaps = bad. Heaps Starting = VERY BAD.

I got hammered for posting this a couple weeks ago, so it's nice to see more fans accepting the fact that the kid isn't ready. He is beyond raw and the only reason I can think of that he is still playing is maybe something was promised when he was recruited. Because it absolutely makes no sense to not even LOOK at what munns or lark could do in game time situations.



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He should have been redshirted, but since he wasn't you just have to use this season as a baptism by fire.

Dcr36 wrote:
Heaps looks bad. And it doesn't look like he's getting better.



If the coaching staff wants to take him out, that's fine by me. I'm not, however, going to stand behind this:

Every game Heaps plays is a display of pride by Bronco, Anae and Doman, whether they admit it or not.

I don't know the details behind WHY Jake continues to start, and if it's nothing more than stubbornness, then sure, a pox upon Bronco's house. But I'm not going to pretend to know all the details. It's entirely possible that, at the current moment, Munns and Lark ARE as bad. (EDIT: or it could be an attitude thing. Or any number of factors that are mostly kept between team members.) I don't know how they'd hold up in a game, and I don't think anybody else does until they actually, y'know, play a game.

It's reasonable to say "we don't know the details." And you're right.



Here's the problem I have allowing my mind to settle on the notion that the coaches simply know better.



Heaps looks bad. REALLY BAD. Statistically, he looks JUST as bad. Is it really likely that we recruited three QBs (Lark, Munns, AND Marshall) that are worse than any QB we've ever had?



Is it really just the case that we don't have a QB at all? To expect that Bronco made THAT big of a mistake in recruiting would be a much greater anomaly than the idea that he simply picked the wrong horse and is too stubborn to switch.



Occam's razor suggests that the coaches have simply chosen poorly and are not owning up to it.



There is another possibility--one that Bronco himself (in the Wyoming post-game comments) promotes, that it is not the QB, but the whole TEAM that is not "executing at a high level."



To me that is a rather amazing point of view. Are we really expected to believe that the whole team took a major step down in a single season!? JJ Kariya and Quezada combined for over 200 rushing yards. 200! Somebody Total up the number of 200 yard rushing games BYU has had over it's last decade. I'd be surprised if it were more than 25, and yet we needed that to win. We cannot sustain that kind of production on the ground.



Imagine that the interception wasn't thrown, and that Heaps makes a completion to extend the drive early in the fourth quarter that was stalled, and that by that action BYU goes on to score. The game ends 32 to 13 on just TWO plays change. TWO plays ENTIRELY attributable to a QB's under-competent decisions.



The coaching staff and the whole team seem to be taking the approach that Heaps' low level of play = "our adversity." I am not comfortable with the coach letting that attitude foster on the team--especially when a single decision by him could have changed all of that.



IF I'm right, then this will get worse before it gets better. I therefore predict BYU will lose to Colorado State.



Prove me wrong cougs, get a bowl game!

Yzzazz, you may be right, but I didn't see this game as badly for Heaps as you did. Yes, he threw the INT, which allowed Wyoming to get back into the game, but there were so many penalties by the Oline that stopped the team's momentum and put the team in bad 3d and long situations. Speredon was terrible today with 3 penalties at critical times when it was 3d and short and then after his false start or hold, the team is moved back.



I also saw 3 dropped passes in the second half. One in the endzone by JJ on the 2pt try. Then on th enext drive, Mathews drops a pass that hit him in the hands. That was before the FG attempt. Anae calling JJ's number on the 3d and short sweep was yet another bad call on his part. We've been getting 2+ yards everytime Kariya touched the ball up the middle, go with your strength. We've seen that sweep play fail time and time again all season.



Heaps was manageable today and it was obvious that BYU would run the ball again and again until Wyoming finally stopped them. The passes to Ashworth on the TD drive in the second half were terrific throws by Heaps. He still is the best option for the team right now.



So, I would not have put a loss on Heaps if Wyoming had scored on that last drive. The team had man several opportunities to put the game away defensively or offensively and just didn't get it done.

Of course he isn't ready! He's a freaking freshman! I don't care how many freaking stars you have, true freshmen should not be starting at QB in D1 football! It. Does. Not. Work. I'll feel much better next year with Heaps as a sophomore, but this year is going to hurt.



BYU had no option once Riley went down. Even if Heaps had redshirted he would have played once Riley went out for surgery. So that's where we are. I don't expect a ton of improvement this year, but I hope that spring and fall practices are helpful for him. I just keep telling myself that Beck didn't look that good as a freshman either.

Schmoe wrote:
He should have been redshirted, but since he wasn't you just have to use this season as a baptism by fire.

Why? WHY make the team and all the fanbase suffer because "you just have to..."? This is exactly where I think the coaching staff is. And I say that's a big mistake on their part.



Hopefully Heaps can learn and make his career in general worth the pain this year. But I doubt it will happen. If you let Heaps finish this year, then "you just have to..." go with the guy with the most playing time for the next three years.



LaVell/Chow just had to go with Feterik for three years, and what we got was the Motor City Bowl for all that pain.



I say an Independent BYU simply cannot afford that kind of mistaken thinking. But unless Jake humbles himself and works himself silly in the offseason I doubt we will see much of a better outcome. Given Jake's youth and inexperience I seriously doubt he'll even comprehend what he needs to do to make it happen.

Yzzazz wrote:
Occam's razor suggests that the coaches have simply chosen poorly and are not owning up to it.

I'm not that smart, but I think that Occam's razor suggests that the simplest answer is the most likely answer.



That said, maybe the simplest answer is that the true freshman is simply not D1 level yet. Your logic suggests that the coaches don't want to win and are conspiring to play poorly. Reminds me of the 9/11 truthers out there.

From Dick Harmon's twitter during the game: "That's the ugliest pick I've seen a BYU quarterback throw since Sean Covey completed a pass to a Utah noseguard in 1988."



Truth hurts.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
Of course he isn't ready! He's a freaking freshman! I don't care how many freaking stars you have, true freshmen should not be starting at QB in D1 football! It. Does. Not. Work. I'll feel much better next year with Heaps as a sophomore, but this year is going to hurt.



BYU had no option once Riley went down. Even if Heaps had redshirted he would have played once Riley went out for surgery. So that's where we are. I don't expect a ton of improvement this year, but I hope that spring and fall practices are helpful for him. I just keep telling myself that Beck didn't look that good as a freshman either.

Here's the problem. Beck didn't look as bad. But Beck didn't even look GREAT until his FINAL year at BYU. You know who DID look slightly better than mediocre his freshman year? Detmer. Beating Colorado in the bowl game his freshman year, Detmer showed that he had upside.



Heaps doesn't show that kind of upside. We simply cannot afford to put of with three years of reaching upward toward mediocrity. That's where this is heading. I hope I'm wrong.

Yzzazz wrote:
[Why? WHY make the team and all the fanbase suffer because "you just have to..."? This is exactly where I think the coaching staff is.

Because...even if the coaches went with the experienced junior (Riley) out of camp they would have been forced to play the true freshman when Riley went down. No other QB was game ready. I don't think it was even close.



So, we have Heaps, and that's the way it's going to be because nobody else is game ready. There's no way that Lark is game ready when he hardly got any fall snaps and I'm sure gets minimal weekday snaps in practice. Next year Heaps will have a ton of experience to draw from and will be the leading contender for the starting position. He's the guy for the next four years, so that's where we are.

Wow, my stupidity detector is going off the scales reading this thread!



The interception was pretty freaking awful, no doubt about that... but again, how many "really awful" interceptions did Max Hall throw?



Jake made some great passes, and once again was plagued by dropped passes. Have all of those dropped passes been perfect throws? No. But how many times have we heard the announcers say "The throw may have been a little behind him, but that's still a catch that a receiver has got to make."



Anyone else here besides me been watching college football for more than this year? Doesn't appear so.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:

Occam's razor suggests that the coaches have simply chosen poorly and are not owning up to it.

I'm not that smart, but I think that Occam's razor suggests that the simplest answer is the most likely answer.



That said, maybe the simplest answer is that the true freshman is simply not D1 level yet. Your logic suggests that the coaches don't want to win and are conspiring to play poorly. Reminds me of the 9/11 truthers out there.

It is a simpler explanation that the coaches made one bad decision (keep playing Heaps) rather than four (recruiting all poor QBs) bad decisions, or as Bronco suggests 20+ poor performances by players on offense.



You understood my use of the principle correctly, but still managed to miss the point. Reminds me of the radical left out there.

Italics wrote:
Wow, my stupidity detector is going off the scales reading this thread!



The interception was pretty freaking awful, no doubt about that... but again, how many "really awful" interceptions did Max Hall throw?



Jake made some great passes, and once again was plagued by dropped passes. Have all of those dropped passes been perfect throws? No. But how many times have we heard the announcers say "The throw may have been a little behind him, but that's still a catch that a receiver has got to make."



Anyone else here besides me been watching college football for more than this year? Doesn't appear so.

I have been watching games in person since Gifford Nielsen. It's not one throw. Heaps looks bad. How can you have been watching BYU football for more than one year and NOT see that?

Looks like we have Heaps' little sister posting here.

cougman wrote:
I got hammered for posting this a couple weeks ago, so it's nice to see more fans accepting the fact that the kid isn't ready. He is beyond raw and the only reason I can think of that he is still playing is maybe something was promised when he was recruited. Because it absolutely makes no sense to not even LOOK at what munns or lark could do in game time situations.



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No one is arguing that he isn't ready. He's a true freshman and there's not a better option on this team right now.



He'll get better. Maybe he's not as good as people said he was in the summer, but he's also not as bad as people are saying now. He's a baby and he should have been redshirted (something I never budged from for over a year) but he's the best option we have currently.



Playing Munns or Lark makes zero sense right now and there's risk that it would disrupt this team and have consequences well beyond this season. Heaps is our horse like it or not so get with the program.

Italics wrote:
Wow, my stupidity detector is going off the scales reading this thread!



The interception was pretty freaking awful, no doubt about that... but again, how many "really awful" interceptions did Max Hall throw?



Jake made some great passes, and once again was plagued by dropped passes. Have all of those dropped passes been perfect throws? No. But how many times have we heard the announcers say "The throw may have been a little behind him, but that's still a catch that a receiver has got to make."



Anyone else here besides me been watching college football for more than this year? Doesn't appear so.

Jake is not playing well, and it's not the receivers' fault. If the receivers caught the catchable balls, then Heaps' numbers would be decent, but they wouldn't be close to good. Heaps is playing like a kid right now and he needs to figure out how to play like a man.

Mars wrote:


With the late TD pass, Heaps did just enough this game to not be benched for Lark next game, IMO. No more.

I hope you don't seriously think the coaches would have done that. Half (or more) the reason we're in this mess to begin with is due to indecision by the coaches and failing to give our offense a chance to "gel" - throwing in ANOTHER new QB more than halfway through the season would just be adding fuel to the stupidity fire.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
So, we have Heaps, and that's the way it's going to be because nobody else is game ready. There's no way that Lark is game ready when he hardly got any fall snaps and I'm sure gets minimal weekday snaps in practice. Next year Heaps will have a ton of experience to draw from and will be the leading contender for the starting position. He's the guy for the next four years, so that's where we are.

I agree with all of this except the last sentence and a half. Heaps is our guy for the rest of the season, but he has done nothing to show me he has any sort of inside track for the starting spot next season. The QB race will be wide open in Spring based on what we've seen this season.



If we put Andy Dick under center all season, I daresay all the experience and snaps in the world wouldn't make him a front-runner to win the starting spot the next season unless he did something on the field to make you think, "hey, this could be our guy."



Yet to have that experience with Heaps.

Yzzazz wrote:
Here's the problem. Beck didn't look as bad. But Beck didn't even look GREAT until his FINAL year at BYU.

Disagree. Here's why.



Freshman year: only started 4 games. 1 completion for 12 yards against USC.



Sophomore: Second team all-MWC. Started 10 games. From wikipedia:

Beck averaged a MWC-best 261.0 yards per game against league opponents and averaged 233.0 yards per game against all opponents. He was named the MWC Offensive Player of the Week after leading the Cougars to a 41-24 win over Air Force. Against San Diego State, Beck posted Brigham Young's highest quarterback rating since early in the 2001 season at 204.8. He also passed the 3,000-yard mark as a sophomore, ranking as the Cougars' third most prolific sophomore quarterback, while passing for at least one 50+ yard completion in six of eleven games.

Junior: First team all-MWC.

He threw for a league-best 3,709 yards, marking the most yards by a Brigham Young quarterback since Brandon Doman threw for over 3,500 yards in 2001. Beck was ranked fifth nationally with a league-best 309.1 yards-per-game average, including a league-high 517 yards in a loss to TCU on Sept. 24. Beck was twice named the MWC Offensive Player or the Week.

Senior: First team all MWC, Offensive PotY.

As a senior, Beck was ranked as the 2nd best quarterback in the country by ESPN as measured in quarterback efficiency ratings (173.27)[1] and 5th best season leader in passing by CBS.[2]. He led Brigham Young to a record of 10-2, with a 8-0 record in the Mountain West Conference. He was a finalist for the Davey O'Brien and Unitas Golden Arm Awards, and created buzz on the Heisman watch lists.

Beck showed steady improvement immediately following a crappy freshman year. The same will happen with Heaps.

snoscythe wrote:

So, we have Heaps, and that's the way it's going to be because nobody else is game ready. There's no way that Lark is game ready when he hardly got any fall snaps and I'm sure gets minimal weekday snaps in practice. Next year Heaps will have a ton of experience to draw from and will be the leading contender for the starting position. He's the guy for the next four years, so that's where we are.

I agree with all of this except the last sentence and a half. Heaps is our guy for the rest of the season, but he has done nothing to show me he has any sort of inside track for the starting spot next season. The QB race will be wide open in Spring based on what we've seen this season.



If we put Andy Dick under center all season, I daresay all the experience and snaps in the world wouldn't make him a front-runner to win the starting spot the next season unless he did something on the field to make you think, "hey, this could be our guy."



Yet to have that experience with Heaps.

I'm fine with that, make Heaps earn the job for next year... but anyone that questions whether he's our best option this year is smoking something.



Keep in mind, Heaps did not call the 3rd and 2 sweep to JJ. This game has a completely different feel if we convert there.



He's a true freshman with terrible receivers and a very bad offensive coordinator... what true freshman in the history of football could make miracles under those circumstances.



I like the fact that we won and that Robert Anae still looks like an idiot.