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Heaps = bad. Heaps Starting = VERY BAD.

by Yzzazz · 10/23/2010

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Yzzazz
CAFB_04-12 wrote:

Do you know how many 3rd and 2s DiLuigi has converted on the season? 1 in 4. Still like the call?



Bad pass and interception? Yes. But so many on this board wanted Heaps to start throwing more, and guess what you get? Stupid interceptions by an average freshman QB.



I can't believe you like the DiLuigi call on 3rd and 2. I even called that play before it was run, and I'm not that smart about football. When I can predict the plays Anae will call on 3rd down with DiLuigi in the I formation, then I'm certain smarter football coaches (Wyoming's) will guess the same thing. I like the chances with Juice or Kariya over DiLuigi in that formation. If you need a time out to get set up then call the freaking time out, but don't run the I with DiLuigi on 3rd and 2.


Predictability of the call and the call itself are two different issues. JJ had 88 yards today and he runs well around the end, not up the middle. 1 in 4 includes three up the middle. The problem? JJ's size. If I'm going to run JJ on 3 and 2, then YES I like him on a sweep.



But I'll give you credit for predicting the call and admit that if you could see it coming, the other team could have as well.



But even an AVERAGE BYU QB should have passed Wyoming into oblivion. We do not have an average QB.
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CAFB_04-12
snoscythe wrote:
So, we have Heaps, and that's the way it's going to be because nobody else is game ready. There's no way that Lark is game ready when he hardly got any fall snaps and I'm sure gets minimal weekday snaps in practice. Next year Heaps will have a ton of experience to draw from and will be the leading contender for the starting position. He's the guy for the next four years, so that's where we are.


I agree with all of this except the last sentence and a half. Heaps is our guy for the rest of the season, but he has done nothing to show me he has any sort of inside track for the starting spot next season. The QB race will be wide open in Spring based on what we've seen this season.



If we put Andy Dick under center all season, I daresay all the experience and snaps in the world wouldn't make him a front-runner to win the starting spot the next season unless he did something on the field to make you think, "hey, this could be our guy."



Yet to have that experience with Heaps.

Okay, legit observation, I agree. Who knows what spring or fall will bring, but I have to think that starting 9-10 games will help. Lark could make equal progress, and it would make for a great QB battle. After all, we need a workable backup. Personally, I think Riley is cut out of Safety cloth and should try out there. Or as a RB.
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Yzzazz
craigoscarson wrote:
Just to make it fair for Heaps, the last time Yzzazz made a earth shattering observation, it was last year before the Florida State game when he declared in a page long epitath we had the best defense in BYU history and would roll FSU and TCU.



There's some value in keeping an even keel and not going overboard in either direction.



We won today and Bob Anae isn't any more secure in his job. I'm happy.


Great perspective. Wrong (I didn't say we DID, I said that we had the potential to BE)... but fair to mention.
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CAFB_04-12
Yzzazz wrote:
But even an AVERAGE BYU QB should have passed Wyoming into oblivion. We do not have an average QB.

Nobody is really arguing that point. I think that JJ would have probably gained two yards up the middle, considering that Wyoming was probably set up to stop the sweep the second they saw JJ line up in the I. JJ was not running as well as Kariya, but we give it to JJ who gets stuffed on a critical 3rd down.
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snoscythe
craigoscarson wrote:
CAFB_04-12 wrote:
So, we have Heaps, and that's the way it's going to be because nobody else is game ready. There's no way that Lark is game ready when he hardly got any fall snaps and I'm sure gets minimal weekday snaps in practice. Next year Heaps will have a ton of experience to draw from and will be the leading contender for the starting position. He's the guy for the next four years, so that's where we are.


I agree with all of this except the last sentence and a half. Heaps is our guy for the rest of the season, but he has done nothing to show me he has any sort of inside track for the starting spot next season. The QB race will be wide open in Spring based on what we've seen this season.



If we put Andy Dick under center all season, I daresay all the experience and snaps in the world wouldn't make him a front-runner to win the starting spot the next season unless he did something on the field to make you think, "hey, this could be our guy."



Yet to have that experience with Heaps.


I'm fine with that, make Heaps earn the job for next year... but anyone that questions whether he's our best option this year is smoking something.



Keep in mind, Heaps did not call the 3rd and 2 sweep to JJ. This game has a completely different feel if we convert there.



I like the fact that we won and that Robert Anae still looks like an idiot.


I have never called for Heaps to be benched since the Nelson injury. All our eggs are in his basket for this season unless you suddenly think splitting snaps and 2QB systems are good, because calling for Heaps to ride the pine at this point is to revisit all of the same faults that plagued that novelty trick. Having said that, the fact that he is our guy for the next 5 games doesn't mean he is immune to criticism. Anae is our guy for the next 5 games also, but he sure doesn't seem to enjoy much immunity for his shortcomings.



And as long as we are playing "Ifs-and-buts" to find silver linings, this is also a very different game if Heaps doesn't gift wrap 7 points for Wyoming or very different in the opposite direction if Heaps second interception isn't called back on encroachment....
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Spudman87
I have seen the quarterbacks in practice as well, but I don't think that any of the other quarterbacks are better than Heaps. The confidence he has when he throws, and even his accuracy, are the best of our qb's in practice, IMHO. That being said, if someone else doesn't step up and clearly out-play Heaps, why replace him?

As for the game today, I can only remember two passes that were just flat out bad passes. One was the interception, and the other one was a throw to JJ down the middle in double coverage that the guy intercepted, but got called back for pass interference. I may remember it wrong, but these are the only two BAD throws from Heaps.

I am not saying that the rest of his passes were perfect, but they were catch-able for the most part. We had drives stall because of penalties, dropped passes, and some interesting play calls. Oh, and there was the one that stalled deep in our own territory when he got sacked. Other than that, though, I would put our lack of offensive production just as much on people catching the ball as on the one throwing it.

Heaps hasn't exactly been the savior we were hoping for, but he is a true freshman. He is making the same mistakes that we saw from Max Hall last year, but he doesn't have the supporting cast to cover for him. I know that these excuses have been made all year, but it doesn't mean that they aren't still valid.
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Italics
Speaking of practice... I think I saw someone else in this thread (don't remember) who suggest that Lark or Munns should start because they've looked okay in practice.



There are just so many things wrong with that statement that I wouldn't even know where to begin with a response.



Hopefully my memory is just playing tricks on me and I didn't actually see it. For the sake of my mental health, I won't bother checking.
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Alphaleonis
I would change your headline to: HEAPS IN HIGH sCHOOL AND IN ALL POST HS QB CAMPS = UNBELIEVABLY GOOD, HEAPS ON THIS OFFENSE = BAD, THEREFORE: THIS OFFENSE WITH OR WITHOUT HEAPS = BAD



This season is only a 2/3rd over and we already had more illegal motion penalties than in many full seasons, maybe in any full season.



This season is only 2/3 over and we have by far broken the record for dropped passes by a BYU team in the past 40 years.



This season is only 2-3 over and we have already broken the record for stupid offensive calls by coaches in a season.



As Cougar Peasant pointed out - take away the one pick six. Then take away all the drops, then take away all the stupid calls, Then take away all the stupid penalties. This game is then a blowout and we have only taken away one Heaps play, along with about a dozen plays by guys with much more seniority. (How many years has Anae been here?)



One more opinion - Heaps' lack of progress from his HS self. Maybe he has even gone backwards. This is due in large part to loss of confidence due to bad coaching.
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CougarPeasant
craigoscarson wrote:
CAFB_04-12 wrote:
So, we have Heaps, and that's the way it's going to be because nobody else is game ready. There's no way that Lark is game ready when he hardly got any fall snaps and I'm sure gets minimal weekday snaps in practice. Next year Heaps will have a ton of experience to draw from and will be the leading contender for the starting position. He's the guy for the next four years, so that's where we are.


I agree with all of this except the last sentence and a half. Heaps is our guy for the rest of the season, but he has done nothing to show me he has any sort of inside track for the starting spot next season. The QB race will be wide open in Spring based on what we've seen this season.



If we put Andy Dick under center all season, I daresay all the experience and snaps in the world wouldn't make him a front-runner to win the starting spot the next season unless he did something on the field to make you think, "hey, this could be our guy."



Yet to have that experience with Heaps.


I'm fine with that, make Heaps earn the job for next year... but anyone that questions whether he's our best option this year is smoking something.



Keep in mind, Heaps did not call the 3rd and 2 sweep to JJ. This game has a completely different feel if we convert there.



He's a true freshman with terrible receivers and a very bad offensive coordinator... what true freshman in the history of football could make miracles under those circumstances.



I like the fact that we won and that Robert Anae still looks like an idiot.


we've hammered the reason why Heaps is starting over Lark and Munns in many other threads, it was all due to mission timing by the latter two.



I agree with sno and craig that Heaps has earned nothign so far to be the assumed starter next season. He still has the rest of the season to improve and put him in position to be the strongest QB of the lot going into Spring ball, but at present, he's no Beck after his sophmore season.
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craigoscarson
snoscythe wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
So, we have Heaps, and that's the way it's going to be because nobody else is game ready. There's no way that Lark is game ready when he hardly got any fall snaps and I'm sure gets minimal weekday snaps in practice. Next year Heaps will have a ton of experience to draw from and will be the leading contender for the starting position. He's the guy for the next four years, so that's where we are.


I agree with all of this except the last sentence and a half. Heaps is our guy for the rest of the season, but he has done nothing to show me he has any sort of inside track for the starting spot next season. The QB race will be wide open in Spring based on what we've seen this season.



If we put Andy Dick under center all season, I daresay all the experience and snaps in the world wouldn't make him a front-runner to win the starting spot the next season unless he did something on the field to make you think, "hey, this could be our guy."



Yet to have that experience with Heaps.


I'm fine with that, make Heaps earn the job for next year... but anyone that questions whether he's our best option this year is smoking something.



Keep in mind, Heaps did not call the 3rd and 2 sweep to JJ. This game has a completely different feel if we convert there.



I like the fact that we won and that Robert Anae still looks like an idiot.


I have never called for Heaps to be benched since the Nelson injury. All our eggs are in his basket for this season unless you suddenly think splitting snaps and 2QB systems are good, because calling for Heaps to ride the pine at this point is to revisit all of the same faults that plagued that novelty trick. Having said that, the fact that he is our guy for the next 5 games doesn't mean he is immune to criticism. Anae is our guy for the next 5 games also, but he sure doesn't seem to enjoy much immunity for his shortcomings.



And as long as we are playing "Ifs-and-buts" to find silver linings, this is also a very different game if Heaps doesn't gift wrap 7 points for Wyoming or very different in the opposite direction if Heaps second interception isn't called back on encroachment....


Anae is not a true freshman....
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Yzzazz
Italics wrote:
Speaking of practice... I think I saw someone else in this thread (don't remember) who suggest that Lark or Munns should start because they've looked okay in practice.



There are just so many things wrong with that statement that I wouldn't even know where to begin with a response.



Hopefully my memory is just playing tricks on me and I didn't actually see it. For the sake of my mental health, I won't bother checking.


That was me in the original post. But I'll clarify for you because you're right, saying that "oh they looked great last week in practice, so play THEM" is stupid on anyone's meter. And It isn't what I was trying to convey, so I'll take the trouble to lay it out here.



I saw Lark in his senior year in his High School games. I watched Jake in his senior year of High School games. I watched Munns pre-mission in every open practice of his first fall camp behind Max Hall. I don't believe, based on what I saw, that there was much separation among the three at those points respectively. In fact, I liked Lark's poise and creativity MUCH better than Heaps' and I liked Munns form far better than I like Heaps.



What I really mean to convey is that based on as equal an assessment of them as my own eyes could make at equal points of their progression, I don't believe Lark and Munns are so far behind Heaps that they shouldn't have even seen daylight.



I was astounded that Heaps was allowed to finish the USU game himself. If Heaps was allowed to SHARE time with Riley, why wasn't Lark or Munns allowed a shot when it was clear that Heaps himself wasn't ready? Did Bronco really expect Jake to pull out a win against the Aggies? After that lob to nobody but the defense (eerily similar to today's gaffe), why should Jake be allowed back on the field if you haven't basically given up and are just trying to get him some reps?



I think Bronco has undermined his own ethic with this decision, and he has to hope that Jake really will become what he thought the kid already was. If not, O'Neil Chambers won't be the last casualty of attitude on the team.
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Cougy_Monster
This season just needs to die and go away so we can start fresh. Nothing good can come of this year, except fully cleaning house among the offensive (pun intended) coaching staff.



The best thing that can happen for our QB situation is to get a new OC who declares in the off-season "There is no starting QB. Everyone has an equal chance to earn that job." Then if Heaps is really that good (which I think he is) he'll be able to handily beat the competition and be named the starter by the end of spring ball. Having a new OC show this kind of confidence in him will restore Heaps' confidence in himself. Heaps in turn will learn to trust the play calling of the new OC who calls plays that actually have a chance to work.



And in a completely unrelated string of events, receivers learn how to catch a football.



Boom! We're a great team again.



It's that easy.
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CAFB_04-12
I was astounded that Heaps was allowed to finish the USU game himself. If Heaps was allowed to SHARE time with Riley, why wasn't Lark or Munns allowed a shot when it was clear that Heaps himself wasn't ready?

Because if Heaps wasn't ready you may as well have just thrown an extra RB in the formation and run wildcat all year, because NO QB was game ready after Heaps. Period. Why isn't that obvious?
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Italics
Alphaleonis wrote:
I would change your headline to: HEAPS IN HIGH sCHOOL AND IN ALL POST HS QB CAMPS = UNBELIEVABLY GOOD, HEAPS ON THIS OFFENSE = BAD, THEREFORE: THIS OFFENSE WITH OR WITHOUT HEAPS = BAD



This season is only a 2/3rd over and we already had more illegal motion penalties than in many full seasons, maybe in any full season.



This season is only 2/3 over and we have by far broken the record for dropped passes by a BYU team in the past 40 years.



This season is only 2-3 over and we have already broken the record for stupid offensive calls by coaches in a season.



As Cougar Peasant pointed out - take away the one pick six. Then take away all the drops, then take away all the stupid calls, Then take away all the stupid penalties. This game is then a blowout and we have only taken away one Heaps play, along with about a dozen plays by guys with much more seniority. (How many years has Anae been here?)



One more opinion - Heaps' lack of progress from his HS self. Maybe he has even gone backwards. This is due in large part to loss of confidence due to bad coaching.


DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING
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Italics
Yzzazz wrote:
Speaking of practice... I think I saw someone else in this thread (don't remember) who suggest that Lark or Munns should start because they've looked okay in practice.



There are just so many things wrong with that statement that I wouldn't even know where to begin with a response.



Hopefully my memory is just playing tricks on me and I didn't actually see it. For the sake of my mental health, I won't bother checking.


That was me in the original post. But I'll clarify for you because you're right, saying that "oh they looked great last week in practice, so play THEM" is stupid on anyone's meter. And It isn't what I was trying to convey, so I'll take the trouble to lay it out here.



I saw Lark in his senior year in his High School games. I watched Jake in his senior year of High School games. I watched Munns pre-mission in every open practice of his first fall camp behind Max Hall. I don't believe, based on what I saw, that there was much separation among the three at those points respectively. In fact, I liked Lark's poise and creativity MUCH better than Heaps' and I liked Munns form far better than I like Heaps.



What I really mean to convey is that based on as equal an assessment of them as my own eyes could make at equal points of their progression, I don't believe Lark and Munns are so far behind Heaps that they shouldn't have even seen daylight.



I was astounded that Heaps was allowed to finish the USU game himself. If Heaps was allowed to SHARE time with Riley, why wasn't Lark or Munns allowed a shot when it was clear that Heaps himself wasn't ready? Did Bronco really expect Jake to pull out a win against the Aggies? After that lob to nobody but the defense (eerily similar to today's gaffe), why should Jake be allowed back on the field if you haven't basically given up and are just trying to get him some reps?



I think Bronco has undermined his own ethic with this decision, and he has to hope that Jake really will become what he thought the kid already was. If not, O'Neil Chambers won't be the last casualty of attitude on the team.


Based off of "equal assessment" I'm not sure how you can go with Lark. Heaps is what he is - a former superstar who was the most desired QB in the country.

Heaps has been less than stellar so far this season... even if you take away the awful offense and coaches around him. Lark - on the other hand - probably wouldn't look too hot. He's had few reps and I really think the last thing BYU needs is for ANOTHER new QB to get thrown in there.



You're a good poster (here and elsewhere) and so there's no offense meant by my criticism, I just think you're way off on this topic.
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Mars
Italics wrote:
Wow, my stupidity detector is going off the scales reading this thread! The interception was pretty freaking awful, no doubt about that... but again, how many "really awful" interceptions did Max Hall throw?

Max threw a whole heck of a lot of TD passes too though, to even things out.



Heaps is young, but he also throws a whole bunch of "just too high!" and "just behind the receiver!" type of balls...
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Yzzazz
Spudman87 wrote:
...t he is a true freshman. He is making the same mistakes that we saw from Max Hall last year, but he doesn't have the supporting cast to cover for him. I know that these excuses have been made all year, but it doesn't mean that they aren't still valid.


Disagree. Holy Cow. You're comparing Heaps performance last year to Max's?



Against TCU Max was 20 for 33, 1 interception, 188 yards. Only a TD.

Against TCU Jake was 14 for 30, 2 interceptions, 91 yards and only a field goal.



Against Wyoming last year Max was 20 for 22 with 300 yards in a blow out.

Against Wyoming Jake was...subpar!!



What are you even suggesting?



Heaps is making Max's mistakes plus a whole lot more of his own!



Even suggesting that because Max missed a read once in a while and threw an interception on occasion is enough to draw a supposed parallel with Heaps' ineptitude because, in principle, Max did the same kind of things is a stretch of the imagination.



Heaps' performance has weakened the output of EVERY player on the BYU team.



Here's a comparison for you: Max Beat Utah last year because he overcame the mistakes he made the year before. Jake Heaps performance this year against Utah will uncover a level of mistakes that even Jake didn't know he was capable of--because he has NO IDEA what he is in for in that game--the same way he, and the coaches, had no idea how unprepared he was for this season. But will he be able to come back and learn from them?



I only hope the rivalry doesn't end this year so that Jake can prove to himself that he is capable of doing so. Right now, I don't see it happening.
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Italics
Cougy_Monster wrote:
This season just needs to die and go away so we can start fresh. Nothing good can come of this year


Ehh... that's a bit of a stretch :skeptic:



We don't look like world beaters by any means, but I think we're finally beginning to see IMPROVEMENT.



The defense sure as hell has improved - and even the offense is coming along IMO. Heaps made some great throws today, our receivers - while still dropping balls - looked better. Special teams played very good (save for the blocked FG at the end).



I think we're seeing improvement and will continue to. It's not so much about winning tons of games at this point, it's about seeing our players progress, and I think they are. For example - how about KVN? Man is the kid blooming before our eyes! LOTS of good that can come from the rest of the season...
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Yzzazz
Alphaleonis wrote:
I would change your headline to: HEAPS IN HIGH sCHOOL AND IN ALL POST HS QB CAMPS = UNBELIEVABLY GOOD, HEAPS ON THIS OFFENSE = BAD, THEREFORE: THIS OFFENSE WITH OR WITHOUT HEAPS = BAD



This season is only a 2/3rd over and we already had more illegal motion penalties than in many full seasons, maybe in any full season.


The signal caller has nothing to do this, right?




This season is only 2/3 over and we have by far broken the record for dropped passes by a BYU team in the past 40 years.


Reminds me of the first Feterik year. Except one thing that the KSL guys repeatedly point out. Jake rifles it when he doesn't need to. Is it possible that the record number of dropped passes is easier explained by Heap's throwing style than by the notion that all of our receiving corp is suddenly terrible.




This season is only 2-3 over and we have already broken the record for stupid offensive calls by coaches in a season.

:lol:



These are the same coaches that brought 4 10-win seasons in a row. I think it's a lot easier to point to a low-production QB than to expect these guys to suddenly grow stupid.




As Cougar Peasant pointed out - take away the one pick six. Then take away all the drops, then take away all the stupid calls, Then take away all the stupid penalties. This game is then a blowout and we have only taken away one Heaps play, along with about a dozen plays by guys with much more seniority. (How many years has Anae been here?)


Not so. Take away the coaches understanding that we needed to get 200 yards on the ground and all you've got is Heaps, which would lead to Wyoming winning the game.


One more opinion - Heaps' lack of progress from his HS self. Maybe he has even gone backwards. This is due in large part to loss of confidence due to bad coaching.


Wow. Heaps inability to read the defense, to pick the right receiver, to throw something other than a fast ball or an interception is totally due to the guys who coached two NFL QBs. THAT point has stunning logic.
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livin the dream
Yzzazz wrote:
Heaps performances are worse than every BYU QB I've watched in the last four decades.


Seriously man? Do you not remember Bret Engeman? That guy would throw a pick then walk to the sideline with his head down while the db would run the ball right by him. No way you could say he's worse than him...



I don't think you should throw the kid to the wolves when he's a true freshman with a bunch of butterfingered receivers. You gotta give him a chance, could he turn out to be the next Matt Berry? Maybe, but its way too early to say he is the worst in four decades.
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