Anatomy of a Good Pass

Lawboy wrote:

I am still behind Heaps as the starter. I just want him to start progressing faster then he is. He really needs to start making better throws in the short game. Making the spectacular throw (like the one he threw to ashworth right before his touchdown pass) is one thing but he will never be a great QB until he hits the easy throws consistantly which, IMO is the reason he looks bad to me. My hope is that since he hit on those 3 really good throws last game that his confidence level will go up and he will start hitting the easy throws the way a BYU QB should.

I think we can all agree on this. The question I have is can the plays coach Anae is using now allow this to happen? I doubt it. And we also need 1 TE to step up and be a go to threat. Until 1 TE steps up, 1 WR steps up, Jake is going to struggle.

Disagree. Even if they step up, Heaps will still struggle. It won't be AS bad, but the kid needs a lot more work which won't change just because receivers are playing a little better.

Cougarbib2 wrote:
And yes Higgins should train the receivers to know Jake's tendencies and first look behind, then above, then short, and if not there, look where it is supposed to be.



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:lol:

Horrible pass: One that is intercepted

Bad pass: incomplete pass

good pass: completed pass

very good pass: one completed for a first down

GREAT pass: one completed for a TD



Conversely:



Horrible reception: one that should have been caught, but was intercepted

good reception: one that is completed

great reception: completed for a 1st down

awesome reception: completed for a TD

Lawboy wrote:

...

Glad you aren't a coach at BYU is all I know.



Tell me, if we had a receiver rating at BYU, would it be higher or lower than the QB rating, and why? As we all know, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. Apparently, you prefer statistics and to not ackowledge the whole truth....

Yes, I suppose you can do a "receiver" rating for a reciever and you would just apply the same formula as the passer rating, but only apply to passes to that specific receiver. That would give you a very accurate picture with how efficient a receiver is in the passing game.



I remember back in 2008 people we complaining about how much Max was throwing to Collie. But I went through and Collie's "receiver" rating was like in the 180s and everyone else Max threw to was in the 130-150 range.



Since we have a bye week this week, I'll go back and see what each reciever's rating is.

frdbtr wrote:

kitic77 wrote:
There are only two kinds of passes:





In this case, the statistics are telling the real story. A lot of folks are blaming everyone but Heaps for his poor passer rating but for me, everytime he drops back to pass, I get a sick feeling in my stomach that something bad is about to happen and it has little to do with recievers. Last year was the last time I felt like BYU had a snowballs chance in picking up a 3rd and 8 since that is a hard down and distance to pick up with the run and I have NO faith in Heaps ability to throw for it. Come on guys, even the most militant Heaps supporters can't deny the fact that Heaps is missing on the easy throws consistantly. Anyone remember him throwing 3 feet over the head of a wide open fullback that would have resulted in a touchdown? He misses on screen passes, he threw 5 yards short on the pick six on saturday, those throws to full backs are supposed to be routine and he is missing on them. I think it is for this reason alone that those of us who are pointing out that he isn't playing well are thinking that Lark or Munns couldn't be worse because I have seen many very mediocre QB's hit these throws with ease.

Try some pepto. If that doesnt work try some Valium, maybe some yoga. If that doesnt work either pick therapy or stop watching games. Hes a freshman. He sucks. He'll get better.

Anae sucks, yes? Is that heaps fault too?

Pretty soon you are going to say his mom sucks too.

Funny, I got a sick feeling in the second half of the Utah/BYU game last year, because Max couldnt complete a pass. It was pathetic. Our receivers sucked then too. And so when Utah focused their D on our TE's and run, we had NO, NADA, ZIP, ZERO offense. And then he sandwhiched a pass between two defenders who knocked each other down and George scored. How Max made it as a starter in the NFL is beyond me. (TIC)

If i read anymore of your posts I am going to be sick. Better yet, try some prune juice. You are emotionally constipated.

dmcougar wrote:

Lawboy wrote:

There are only two kinds of passes:





In this case, the statistics are telling the real story. A lot of folks are blaming everyone but Heaps for his poor passer rating but for me, everytime he drops back to pass, I get a sick feeling in my stomach that something bad is about to happen and it has little to do with recievers. Last year was the last time I felt like BYU had a snowballs chance in picking up a 3rd and 8 since that is a hard down and distance to pick up with the run and I have NO faith in Heaps ability to throw for it. Come on guys, even the most militant Heaps supporters can't deny the fact that Heaps is missing on the easy throws consistantly. Anyone remember him throwing 3 feet over the head of a wide open fullback that would have resulted in a touchdown? He misses on screen passes, he threw 5 yards short on the pick six on saturday, those throws to full backs are supposed to be routine and he is missing on them. I think it is for this reason alone that those of us who are pointing out that he isn't playing well are thinking that Lark or Munns couldn't be worse because I have seen many very mediocre QB's hit these throws with ease.

Try some pepto. If that doesnt work try some Valium, maybe some yoga. If that doesnt work either pick therapy or stop watching games. Hes a freshman. He sucks. He'll get better.

Anae sucks, yes? Is that heaps fault too?

Pretty soon you are going to say his mom sucks too.

Funny, I got a sick feeling in the second half of the Utah/BYU game last year, because Max couldnt complete a pass. It was pathetic. Our receivers sucked then too. And so when Utah focused their D on our TE's and run, we had NO, NADA, ZIP, ZERO offense. And then he sandwhiched a pass between two defenders who knocked each other down and George scored. How Max made it as a starter in the NFL is beyond me. (TIC)

If i read anymore of your posts I am going to be sick. Better yet, try some prune juice. You are emotionally constipated.

Max Hall was terrible in the utah game last year. He was all over the place with his passes. If he were on target, the utah game would have been a blowout in BYU's favor. I think you need to take a chill pill. I have not said anything about Heaps that isn't a valid criticism of his play. I have not attacked him personally and have stated multiple times that I think he is very talented and the future of this team and that I have been hoping to see him break out and play well.

It's a shame every thread lately is turning into a heaps sucks thread. This topic was somewhat interesting and could have made for interesting discussion, just like other threads that get off topic, it is getting old already. If you want to tell us why Heaps sucks there are a dozen threads for that already. I just want to talk about something else besides that for awhile.



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BYULV wrote:
It's a shame every thread lately is turning into a heaps sucks thread. This topic was somewhat interesting and could have made for interesting discussion, just like other threads that get off topic, it is getting old already. If you want to tell us why Heaps sucks there are a dozen threads for that already. I just want to talk about something else besides that for awhile.



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It could be a long 2 weeks pardner.

declocoug wrote:

It's a shame every thread lately is turning into a heaps sucks thread. This topic was somewhat interesting and could have made for interesting discussion, just like other threads that get off topic, it is getting old already. If you want to tell us why Heaps sucks there are a dozen threads for that already. I just want to talk about something else besides that for awhile.



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It could be a long 2 weeks pardner.

That's what I'm afraid of so I just bought tix to knotts berry farm for this weekend . . . Schools out Friday so we should have fun.



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I would bet that the guys that can't take one more Heaps Sucks thread would happily entertain another hundred Fire Anae threads though - would probably even skip Disneyland for that.



But it will be a long 2 weeks no matter who we try to blame for our recent victory and likely upcoming one.



See my Talent Succession Failure thread for a new or at least less frequently discussed view on what to blame for this season.



Go Cougs

Party poopers.

Its Heaps fault this thread sucks. If he threw a better ball, didn't cause our linemen to jump, anae to be limited in his playcalling, oneil to go off and get thrown off, ashworth to have a horrible year, lark and munns to to suck more than he does....oh you get my point.



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My expectations for Heaps his freshman year was for him to eventually get the starting job, but to be the back-up for the first few games. Well that sort of happened. I figured that when he became the starter that he would be just ok. He's played worse than I expected, but I believe that it's only partly his fault.



The WR's have been by far the bigger disappointment for me. I expected a lot out of them. I don't see guys getting open consistently and we've all seen how many drops there has been. Then there's the things that have effected Jake that he hasn't had much control over. One being the tough schedule we've had and the other being Robert Anae. The way that Anae handled the QB sitation in Spring, Fall, and the begining of the season is one thing. Then there's the play-calling. Some games Jake has been asked to throw the ball too much and some games too little. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like there have been series where we have ran the ball a bunch of times in a row and then we get to 3rd and 8 and then ask Jake to throw for a first down when he hasn't thrown one pass all series, not to mention on those plays he usually either doesn't have much time to throw or doesn't have a WR open. That seems like it would be difficult to get into a rhythm. We need more ballance with run and pass AND the types of passing plays that are called. Other than the first pass play called in the first half vs Wyoming (the long pass to Hoffman where he dove and missed it and as the announcers mentioned looked back to early and slowed down a bit) I believe the rest of the passes called were short routes. When the defense knows that almost anytime BYU throws it will be a short route, it makes it much more difficult to complete a pass. It's much easier for a defender to defend a short pass than a long pass for the most part, IMO, or at least it was for me. The times where Jake has looked the best, IMO, is when we've actually had a mix of short, intermediate, and long throws called. It definitely hasn't helped Jake's confidence when Anae calls for a running play on 3rd and intermediate or long either.



Another factor that I believe has retarded Jake's progress is all the chaos that has happened within the program this year(ie. O'neil Chambers and lack of leadership).



Again, I expected Heaps to be better than he is right now, but he's had a much more difficult situation in front of him than I thought I would. I still believe that by the time the year's over, he'll be playing much better and he'll still turn out to be a great BYU QB, and oh btw, so does Bronco.

To stay on topic, does the "Anatomy of a Good Pass" produce a passer rating of 87.9 which ranks 110 out of 112 and a mere 102.4 behind the leader Kellen Moore and 41.8 behind true freshman Pete Thomas? Does passer rating tell the whole story? No. Is it useful in determining the effectiveness of the QB? Absolutely. Sorry, but that's the reality we now live in.



http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/collegeQuarterbackRating/count/81" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow, I'm late to the thread but the only good comment is from BYULV. :lol:

The thread is about the "Anatomy of a Good Pass" Period!!! A QB rarely throws to a spot on the chest, and normally throws it to wear he thinks the reciever will be at some point in the route where his thinks his reciever can have the greatest chance of catching it and the defender less chance.

Ever heard a retired NFL QB announcer say what a perfect pass so and so just threw even thought the ball was in the recievers knees???? That's because if it were thrown anywhere else it would have been intercepted or knock down by the defense.

Get a clue people!!! :bug: Yes, a good pass is almost always a competion but a incomplete pass doesn't mean it was a poor pass. Nor is a good pass one that hits the reciever in the numbers or his outstretched hands (although I loved those passes). A good pass is anything that is within an arms radius of anywhere on the reciever ..... catchable varies from reciever to reciever (because obviously some passes hit some recievers in the hands and they still don't catch it.

I was a TE/Reciever in HS and I never had the "Perfect" pass thrown to me. I was Taught/Coached to vary my speed so I put myself in the best position to catch the ball, also to put myself between the ball and the defender so the defender would have to interfer in order to disrupt the catch, and how to fight through the line or DB to get open, and how to hold my hands to cushion the ball into my body,...... and so many other things.....things I don't see our recievers doing every game! :angry:

I have seen sooooo many coaching failures this year on our coaching staff it's not even funny. This recieving core we have is a JOKE!!! I would take Jake Heaps old HS reciever over our players. We suffer from poor mecanics, poor routes, and really poor hands. Have anyone of you gone down and felt the $100 pairs of glooves our recievers have??? They feel like soft open fiber saude. If you can't catch with those on you ain't gonna catch anything without them.

Just so you guys know what kind of expectations any "Good" reciever should have and what I was coached with and what I hold our Cougars to is this----

1. If a reciever touches the ball with two hands and drops the pass it was a "Good" pass and was catchable ----- Reciever has the blame. Note -- Does not matter wear the ball is placed by the QB. Two hands is two hands.

2. If a reciever touches the ball with one hand and drops the pass it is both the recievers and QB's fault. As a standard, "Good" recievers should catch 50% of the balls they touch with one full hand.



There's no excuse for the drops our recieving corp continue to have, it's unexcussable! :sick:

Can't we all just copy and paste the same posts over and over?



Oh wait, we already are.

I can be running a drag route and have the qb throw the ball behind me and still get both hands to touch the ball without having a chance at reeling it in. The two hand vs one hand thing is dumb.

Can't we all just make up a new title for a thread that rehashes something just talked about two weeks ago?



Oh wait, we already are.

Schmoe wrote:
I can be running a drag route and have the qb throw the ball behind me and still get both hands to touch the ball without having a chance at reeling it in. The two hand vs one hand thing is dumb.

That's ok if you think that but if the QB see's a defender closing on you from the side you are running do you still want him or expect him to place it out in front of you? No, it should be placed on your back hip.

Schmoe wrote:
I can be running a drag route and have the qb throw the ball behind me and still get both hands to touch the ball without having a chance at reeling it in. The two hand vs one hand thing is dumb.

Still no excuse. What excuss could you possibly have if you get two hands on any ball?

cougman wrote:
To stay on topic, does the "Anatomy of a Good Pass" produce a passer rating of 87.9 which ranks 110 out of 112 and a mere 102.4 behind the leader Kellen Moore and 41.8 behind true freshman Pete Thomas? Does passer rating tell the whole story? No. Is it useful in determining the effectiveness of the QB? Absolutely. Sorry, but that's the reality we now live in.



http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/collegeQuarterbackRating/count/81" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry cougman, nice try. Your post is just a latent Heaps sucks post bc this whole thread is a Heaps sucks thread.

Sadly, a logical fallacy was utilized as a premise for this thread. Stay with me folks--any of you, that is, that can handle more than just Heaps sucks or doesnt suck simplicity--AND the fallacy was formed with the use of an explicit dichotomy that allows for only two possibilities: Black or white--all or nothing--good pass or bad pass--Sucks or doesnt suck. HOw could this thread render anything but a Heaps sucks result?

It dissallows--as defined AND IF WE STAY ON TOPIC--for just that. Jake sucks, sucks, sucks. We get it. Everybody gets that. get over it.

When are some folks going to step away from the reductionistic, simple-simon approach and get over the fact that even Heaps lovers see that Jake sucks.

Its about causality. And some folks just simply see Heaps as the causal factor for the down year and find innumerable ways/posts to try and convince the Heaps-lovers. But underneath all this smoke and mirror analysis, Heaps-haters want their money back, want their ego satisfied, their pound of flesh delivered, their scapegoat benched, their fall-guy's head on a platter, and even Marshall is netter than Heaps; and all the while are exhibiting their profound lack of self-soothing during a difficult and frustrating year--searching desperately for THE ANSWER.

Unfortunately the "Heaps sucks" camp is as narrow-minded as the "Heaps will win the Heisman" camp. Usage by posters of warn-out terms in a condescending and "politically correct" non-personally attacking fashion such "hardly a God-send" or He's just an Engeman or Berry, and others are pathetic. As though they were ripped off and they are now mad and will pound the pulpit in a sanctimonious manner claiming they never did think Heaps should start--

oh hell, why bother continuing, Im caught in the same loop of those that I'm trying to convince that their schtick about convincing Jake-lovers that Jake sucks is getting old itself.