BYU vs USU Game Thread

I was in attendance and here are my thoughts.

1. BYU really needs a solid backup point guard. Jimmer played 38 minutes it seemed like. I really missed Lloyd tonight.

2. BYU seemed to do a lot of standing around watching Jimmer.

3. Post defense needs to be better. I was glad to hear Rose say as much during the post game.

4. BYU out-hustled USU. Love that.

5. Jackson Emery is the best defender on the team.

6. BYU rebounded a lot better then I was expecting. Love that too.



I like the "You got swatted" chant the students section does. I thought of another one for when Jimmer does his wicked crossover or hits a big 3. "You got Jimmer'd!"



And finally between the "Bull S---" and the "Waste of tithing" chants I'd say Utah State is starting to earn a new nickname. Yewt Juniors, Little Yewts or Yewt Light is what I thought of.



This and Georgetown are the biggest game on USU's schedule. They play an incredibly weak out of conference schedule year in and year out. It's one area where Stu is killing his team. Plus the fact that he is afraid to play in Provo on a weekend. They always lack experience in a big game atmosphere.



Good win for the Cougars.

craigoscarson wrote:

mizzoucoug wrote:
Amazing that we won this game. Wesley and Jardine would EASILY start for BYU--it's pathetic to see in-state big men continue to own us year after year. Rose's inability to recruit top big talent or coach up what we do have is the reason we'll never make a tourney run. Ok game but we'd have lost this game by 25 at USU...I was not impressed with much tonight.

Agreed. As I've said a few bazillion times before... BYU will never be an elite team until we have good bigs. Yes, that means that I do not see us being elite this year - neither do I see us going further than the second round in the tourney. Spare me the "it's too early" talk. It's obvious that we don't have an inside game. We needed Davies and Andersen to improve their game... they didn't. Living off of your guard play only gets you so far in college basketball.



I don't get it? Why/how do we not recruit good bigs? Is if that hard for a Top 25 team?

Every big we have, USU also recruited and Stew Morrill wanted Brandon Davies very very badly (so did Cal, Stanford, etc.) Ive said for years that there's a disconnect between the coaching staff and our true centers. I'm not sure if it's a talent thing or a coaching thing, but there's a problem and we need to fix it if we want to make some real noise this year.

winner winner, chicken dinner.

I don't understand how BYU is still struggling to develop the bigs. SAD stuff. Miles could have been a beast with the right training.

declocoug wrote:

Italics wrote:

Amazing that we won this game. Wesley and Jardine would EASILY start for BYU--it's pathetic to see in-state big men continue to own us year after year. Rose's inability to recruit top big talent or coach up what we do have is the reason we'll never make a tourney run. Ok game but we'd have lost this game by 25 at USU...I was not impressed with much tonight.

Agreed. As I've said a few bazillion times before... BYU will never be an elite team until we have good bigs. Yes, that means that I do not see us being elite this year - neither do I see us going further than the second round in the tourney. Spare me the "it's too early" talk. It's obvious that we don't have an inside game. We needed Davies and Andersen to improve their game... they didn't. Living off of your guard play only gets you so far in college basketball.



I don't get it? Why/how do we not recruit good bigs? Is if that hard for a Top 25 team?

Every big we have, USU also recruited and Stew Morrill wanted Brandon Davies very very badly (so did Cal, Stanford, etc.) Ive said for years that there's a disconnect between the coaching staff and our true centers. I'm not sure if it's a talent thing or a coaching thing, but there's a problem and we need to fix it if we want to make some real noise this year.

winner winner, chicken dinner.

I don't understand how BYU is still struggling to develop the bigs. SAD stuff. Miles could have been a beast with the right training.

Down low play is an after thought. Rose prefers a run and gun, small-ball type offense so priority on the Bigs is second tier. For Rose, the big-guy's main job is to rebound so the big-guy can get the ball in the hands of the streaking guards and for the big-guy to keep opponents' bigs from scoring. That's it.



We have the talent, but rather than scheme game plans around getting the ball into the post, down-low cuts, etc. the game plan is to swing it around up top and watch Jimmer do his thang. Everybody clears out to give Jimmer the lane. I swear there were times tonight we looked like AF, everybody running cross patterns all over the place as the ball moved along the three point line.



We got lucky tonight IMO. We shot horribly. USU played great D. Good thing they sucked it up on free-throws.

craigoscarson wrote:



Every big we have, USU also recruited and Stew Morrill wanted Brandon Davies very very badly (so did Cal, Stanford, etc.) Ive said for years that there's a disconnect between the coaching staff and our true centers. I'm not sure if it's a talent thing or a coaching thing, but there's a problem and we need to fix it if we want to make some real noise this year.

Rose hasn't shown the ability to do so in the past so how's he going to make a difference/change now??

GUnk, totally agree. I'm surprised that BYU keeps getting bigs that commit to them. At what point, if you are a decent low post thread that also likes getting touches, do you decide that BYU is not worth it? I'm afraid that centers are going to see BYU as a guard school and basketball will never reach it's full potential as a result. Rose needs to get a coach who's sole focus is the developing our centers.

beauso79 wrote:

Every big we have, USU also recruited and Stew Morrill wanted Brandon Davies very very badly (so did Cal, Stanford, etc.) Ive said for years that there's a disconnect between the coaching staff and our true centers. I'm not sure if it's a talent thing or a coaching thing, but there's a problem and we need to fix it if we want to make some real noise this year.

Rose hasn't shown the ability to do so in the past so how's he going to make a difference/change now??

I hate to have to say this considering his success but I am beginning to believe that Rose is not the coach we need to be an elite team. He has schemed for a team that can compete for the conference and win a lot of games against average opponents. Run and gun, as you will always see, gets shut down by good teams like it did tonight. In other words, his reliance on everything but a half-court game cannot yield the big wins.



As far as Jimmer goes, I was disappointed with him tonight. He shot way too much. Here's the thing, when he is getting double-teamed at the top of the key someone is always going to be open but he is not finding that guy. Gameplan around the high screen all day and have Emery or (do we have another real shooter?) someone else on the wing waiting for the swing pass--every other team runs this to perfection but us.



I think we all hoped we'd have bigs that could score this year, but they are all amazingly soft. Even Hartsock doesn't have the ability to score down low with contact. As a slasher, jump shooter, and on the move he is doing great. But a guy like Wesley makes us a top 10 team overnight--it's a shame Jimmer's final year will go to waste because he has to do it all alone...again.

Not quite sure where you got the idea that Emery isn't a good long distance shooter. There were stretches last year where he was nails from behind the arc and near the top of the list statistically, even ahead of Jimmer. So far this year we haven't seen it from Jacks but he's been in foul trouble too much to really get much of a rhythm.

Mars wrote:


Davies didn't hardly play at all. I'm wondering what the story is there.



Hartsock was a bright spot. He was only 5-of-12, but he grabbed a team high 4 offensive rebounds and had a game high 4 blocks.



I think this was Stew's 100th loss. Glad it's memorable! Rose basically blasted him for being too chicken to work out future games. That guy is a whiny coward.

Good post Mars. I'll touch on these 3 points.



Word is that Davies was sick today.



Hartsock played with a lot of heart today and was the player of the game in my opinion. His blocks were huge. Especially the one in the final seconds of the game.



Everybody up in Aggie land seem to think that Rose is afraid to play in Logan. Reality is this. Out of the last 10 games, including tonight, 5 have been in Logan, 4 in Provo, 1 at ESA.



You mentioned Rose blasting Morrill for being to chicken. Well here is the story behind it. BYU wants to work out a deal where they play a home and home with every 3rd game being played at ESA. Morrill is against the neutral site game because he feels it's not neutral enough. So BYU agrees to just the home and home. Morrill wants every game in Logan to be played on Friday or Saturday. Rose thinks that is fine and wants the same. But Morrill will not accept a weekend game in Provo. Basically his demands are that the Provo game be either played on a weekday or during Christmas break.



REALITY is that Stew is afraid to play in Provo, not the other way around. Which is consistent with his soft out of conference schedules year in and year out. If I was BYU I would say screw you guys and schedule somebody else entirely.

We lose this game if Nate bendall plays. Not that NAte is that great, but we would have been completely dominated inside. I got to give it up to Harding. He was killing us on the boards. Refs finally caught up with him in the second half.

I agree with most posts above. And add this. USU goes to the Big dance again this year, barring injuries and if Bendall comes back. That is a good ballclub--even though I really really dislike their fans and their coach even more!

So, glass half-full, we beat a good, tough team on a very poor shooting night. We, the fans, and the team "got Jimmered" last night. Two-edged sword. Others have to get more involved. Without Michael Lloyd, we will not do as well this year as last. Noah is improved slightly, but still soft. Our outside shooting is down from last year. And our fastbreak seems to be pretty well scouted. We have a GOOD team. Not as good as last year.

My magic, what if--if KC can find/establish his game a little better, we may approach last year's team in quality and success. Otherwise, most every opponent will get Jimmered, he gets his 20 ppg average, gets his all-american awards and we lose in the first round of the Big Dance. NOt a bad season, in fact a great season, but it seems like we all want just a little more.

Some of my thoughts:

I'm not a fan of games featuring 46 fouls and 56 free throw attempts. Officials were way too involved last night.



We're not very good defensively in the post.



We need Jackson on the floor. Cheap fouls sending him to the bench do not help BYU.

Yeah and Jimmer has to stop jacking up so many threes from half court... I know he makes it most of time when he's being insane... but 5/14, c'mon, guess he didnt see many better options. Rose said this as well but we didnt look like we knew what was going on out there. I keep forgetting this is only the 2nd game.



WIll be intresting to see how well USU develops as well.

I thought our spacing was pretty poor all night. This made it easy for USU to double Jimmer on the High pick and roll and not give up a good shot off after a couple of passes.



Jimmer is so skilled even in a bad game he is by far our best player.



Emery looked better handling the ball than I remember. Perhaps he is just healthier at the start of the season.



Abouo was great on the boards and on D. I wish he was drive a little more if his 3 isn't falling.



C. Collinsworth is going to lead the team in rebound unless something changes. He is athletic, boxes out and pursues the ball.



Hartsock seems to be our only big that can put the ball in the hoop consistently. He also gave incredible effort on loose balls. He also seem to be hurt. He didn't have as much lift as last season.



K. Collinsworth impressed with his quick hands on D and his ability to post smaller guards. He got in trouble handchecking at the end of the game, but he is going to make a difference for this team.



Anderson was okay. He game us some good minutes defensively.



Rogers impressed me with his toughness and effort in the few minutes he played. Davies needs to take lessons from him.



Martineau kept loosing Green for open 3's. So he was out. And Jimmer had to play a ton of minutes.



Magnusson is a very smart player. He made of couple of quick passes that got us good shots. If he was 6'8" instead of 6'8" he would play more.



Overall it was sloppy hard fought game. I was impressed that having Abouo, Emery and Collinsworths in the rotation gives use a much more athletic, strong team than last season. Once we clean up the mental mistakes will can be much better than last year.

kitic77 wrote:
Some of my thoughts:

I'm not a fan of games featuring 46 fouls and 56 free throw attempts. Officials were way too involved last night.



We're not very good defensively in the post.



We need Jackson on the floor. Cheap fouls sending him to the bench do not help BYU.

Great point Kitic. I have no credibility when it comes to complaining about officiating, but those guys really infuriated me. There were a few fouls that were game changers--particularly ticky-tac crap on jackson.

Although Wesley got a rough call at the end. I thought his elbows were more down than up, but a new rule that if you swing your elbows, its an intentional: 2 ft's and the ball. My guess, is that the refs new the potential for a tough fight and a game that could get out of control. But way too many fouls called.



Charles was huge on defense in stopping Green. I saw that kid up close when I would attend games at SLCC. He can be streaky. we caught him on his good night. BUt what was he 6 of 8? The team shot what 60% on the road. Lights out. Charles came in and did a great job on him!

Honestly I don't care if it's a center or a 5'5" guard, I just want to see some freaking presence down-low. It's a miracle that we win games with as many unnecessary perimeter shots as we take. We are not last year's team. Truthfully JT was an asset on offense--if he was open the 3 was dropping. This team does not have Haws either so give it o Charles and Kyle down low and let them post up on someone. USU scored in the paint and we launched 3's. We won by luck IMO. Until someone gives Rose a clue and demands they run a real offense (I don't believe we ran one last night at all) we are doomed to an early exit and perennial unnecessary losses vs UNM and UNLV. It was sickening to see moments where all 5 offensive players were spread around the 3pt line watching Jimmer dance. That is not D1 basketball!

Mars wrote:

I guess I'm not the only one who thinks that the way we played today, we probably should have lost.

your not the only one. Watching us play, i thought we were going to lose. Granted I didn't watch the whole game, it seemed from what i did watch that utah state seemed to score with more ease. we had to struggle for every shot. our offense didn't look good to me and our defense didn't look good either. i am scratching my head wondering how we won? i only caught the last 7 minutes unfortunately though, so my observations are not worth much.



I just didn't feel as good about the season after watching that game.

Yeah, I got the feeling that we're not going to be as good as we thought we might be. It's still early, but I didn't leave feeling overly positive about the season like I did a few weeks ago.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that word is that Davies was sick. Well guess that was wrong. Here's what Wrubell said:

Some are saying Brandon Davies was sick last night. He was not sick, he just wasn't playing; see 4 turnovers in 15 mp this season.

That's from his tweet to the right.

declocoug wrote:
GUnk, totally agree. I'm surprised that BYU keeps getting bigs that commit to them. At what point, if you are a decent low post thread that also likes getting touches, do you decide that BYU is not worth it? I'm afraid that centers are going to see BYU as a guard school and basketball will never reach it's full potential as a result. Rose needs to get a coach who's sole focus is the developing our centers.

A dedicated big-man coach would certainly do wonders, but I think it runs a bit deeper than that. Rose's philosophy will need to change, otherwise the assistant coach over the bigs will just be instructed to coach the bigs to rebound, kick it out to the guards and play defense.



It's quite apparent, Davies and Anderson have no idea what to do with the ball when on occasion they get it down low. Noah plays great, but I think he hesitates just a fraction as if he's first checking to see if the best chance for a bucket is for him to take it to the hole. Noah needs to have the attitude and license that if he has the ball down low the priority is to put it in.

CC has to be the most negative site of all time. We won against a good Utah State team. Not by luck or chance we made the plays down the stretch to win. Teams struggle at the start of the season look around the nation look at how many teams lost, Purdue comes to mind. Does that mean they are horrible teams NO, finding a rhythm is hard. Jimmer is still the man, Hartstock played great and we got the victory. Dont go EMO CC.