Davies out for HC violation

CAFB_04-12 wrote:

Schmoe wrote:
You sure that kids don't get dismissed from classes/school for HC violations? I beg to differ.

well i know a few people personally that did some pretty bad things morally that were not touched by the honor code office. it was dealt with by the bishop and that person, the way i think its should be. if they do not take care of it, then the honor code should step in.

The bishop has discretion as to what he reports to the HC office. The HC office obviously can't act on something it isn't told.

I understand that. its a case by case basis and in this case I hope he had an opportunity to make it right with his bishop first in private before they brought the public hammer down on him. I personally think the hc office should give it ot the bishop to handle and if that doesn't work, then step in, not necessarily the other way around.



It just seems a little unfair to me how they handle it with athletes as compared to regular students. I feel bad for Davies. Like everyone he is human and made a seroius mistake. Unfortunately he will have to suffer more than most given his position as an athlete.



it is what it is.

This sucks. For Davies, for his teammates, and for us fans. But life goes on.



Davies has been integral in BYU's success this season, no doubt about it. HOWEVER, he's had many games where he's spent more time on the bench than on the court due to foul trouble. He has gotten better the last month, but Rose has had to do without Brandon many a times during the season. I hope the team will adapt and still find success.



Now, with regard to the HC. It's a known entity and with Church tithes covering 70% of the tuition, the Church has every right to set the standards for enrollment and continued attendance. Since we don't know the facts regarding Davies' situation, it must have been serious enough to result in suspension. I just hope he gets his act together and has the fortitude to press forward through his trials and returns next season.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:

honor is good. the way its administered in terms of punishment is ridiculous. yes, it ultimately is davies' fault, he knew what he agree dto and then then didn't follow it, but its a high standard and everybody makes mistakes. it should be there to help them not freakin destroy them.

You're right. Let young people do things without any consequences. That will help us restore sanity to our civilization. :whistle:

I am pretty sure that nobody, at least not me, came even close to advocating that position. I support the honor code. nobody is advocating getting rid of consequences, at least i am not.

If the tweets are accurate let me summarize the data.



#1. We have a BYU Athlete who is academically elligible. Fine, we can rule that out.

#2. The HC office is still investigating the information and yet they have determined an action. Good one HC office.

#3. We have a BYU Athlete who has "broken the honor code" and although not "dismissed" from BYU, has been dismissed from the team. Ya, thats consistent implementation or is that execution (pun intended) of Honor.



And that my noble, honorable, believers is called the basis of my doubting the HC office, run by imperfect folks. Or at least an indictment of the system. NOt so much the code, but the system that administers that code.



My only caveat is that Brandon's action were so egregious or so likely to become public that action had to be implemented swiftly and without whatever "2nd chances" that many students have been granted.

jonnylingo wrote:

jonnylingo wrote:
honor is good. the way its administered in terms of punishment is ridiculous. yes, it ultimately is davies' fault, he knew what he agree dto and then then didn't follow it, but its a high standard and everybody makes mistakes. it should be there to help them not freakin destroy them.

You're right. Let young people do things without any consequences. That will help us restore sanity to our civilization. :whistle:

I am pretty sure that nobody, at least not me, came even close to advocating that position. I support the honor code. nobody is advocating getting rid of consequences, at least i am not.

CAFB, try to understand its not about abandoning consequences. Its about an HC office that lives by its own code and inconsistencies.

dmcougar wrote:
If the tweets are accurate let me summarize the data.

#2. The HC office is still investigating the information and yet they have determined an action. Good one HC office.

#3. We have a BYU Athlete who has "broken the honor code" and although not "dismissed" from BYU, has been dismissed from the team. Ya, thats consistent implementation or is that execution (pun intended) of Honor.

You're either misunderstanding or misconstruing #2. If we're reading the same tweets, Brandon Davies isn't so much "still under investigation" as much as he is "status to be determined." It sounds like they need more time to make a decision, not to investigate what happened.



#3 means nothing. If you served a mission: did a kid ever get demoted to Junior, but not sent home? Same thing. Harsher in practice here, obviously, but still the same concept.

dmcougar wrote:
If the tweets are accurate let me summarize the data.



#1. We have a BYU Athlete who is academically elligible. Fine, we can rule that out.

#2. The HC office is still investigating the information and yet they have determined an action. Good one HC office.

#3. We have a BYU Athlete who has "broken the honor code" and although not "dismissed" from BYU, has been dismissed from the team. Ya, thats consistent implementation or is that execution (pun intended) of Honor.



And that my noble, honorable, believers is called the basis of my doubting the HC office, run by imperfect folks. Or at least an indictment of the system. NOt so much the code, but the system that administers that code.



My only caveat is that Brandon's action were so egregious or so likely to become public that action had to be implemented swiftly and without whatever "2nd chances" that many students have been granted.

I have not seen any reports stating that it was the HC office that booted him. Do you have a source that I have overlooked? The reports I have read are in the passive tense-Davies has been dismissed from the team. They do not report who did the dismissing. Perhaps it was the HC office but if they are investigating, perhaps it is a bit premature to assume they did the dismissing...

Wow...just wow. Not so much at Davies, but at so-called BYU fans.



It is a bummer for Davies and for the team, but I am not ready to write off the season just yet. This team was made to run, and a post up center isn't super important in that sort of offense. They're definitely helpful, but not essential. Magnusson, Anderson and Rogers are going to have to step up and play more minutes, but I still like BYU's chances at a 1 or 2 seed and a deep run into the tourney.



As for many of the comments here, what Brigham Young University are you a fan of? BYU stands for something. BYU students are given a serious tuition discount to represent the school and the church the best way they can. This is doubly true for athletes. They get a free-ride and top notch facilities in exchange for representing the school well. They represent the school in a much more prominent way, and therefore may be dealt with a little stricter than the typical student.



I, for one, appreciate that with the stakes so high, that BYU still stuck to their principles. There are bigger things than basketball and the NCAA tournament. That is what the schools stands for and they just made it clear. It sounds like Davies made a mistake and I hope he can get it worked out and come back, this year or next, but I am happy that BYU still stands for what it did when I attended. That is why I went there and why I hope my kids can go there.



Also, the ESPN report said "The school said in the release that since the violation just occurred, decisions on Davies' future with the team and in school are still undetermined." It sounds like there is a sliver of hope he may return. And even if not, the ESPN article illustrates why BYU has athletics. The side bar in the article summarizes the honor code, showing the world what the school stands for.

jonnylingo wrote:

You sure that kids don't get dismissed from classes/school for HC violations? I beg to differ.

well i know a few people personally that did some pretty bad things morally that were not touched by the honor code office. it was dealt with by the bishop and that person, the way i think its should be. if they do not take care of it, then the honor code should step in.

Depends completely on the personal opinion of the student's bishop, which is another reason the whole system is out of whack. If a bishop feels such things are between the Lord and the student and that's it, then the HC Committee will never know. If a student's bishop feels it's his duty to report every violation then the HC will know.



My guess is someone else privy or involved in the offense went to their bishop and that bishop then notified the HC committee.

Isola wrote:
Wow...just wow. Not so much at Davies, but at so-called BYU fans.



It is a bummer for Davies and for the team, but I am not ready to write off the season just yet. This team was made to run, and a post up center isn't super important in that sort of offense. They're definitely helpful, but not essential. Morganson, Anderson and Rogers are going to have to step up and play more minutes, but I still like BYU's chances at a 1 or 2 seed and a deep run into the tourney.



As for many of the comments here, what Brigham Young University are you a fan of? BYU stands for something. BYU students are given a serious tuition discount to represent the school and the church the best way they can. This is doubly true for athletes. They get a free-ride and top notch facilities in exchange for representing the school well. They represent the school in a much more prominent way, and therefore may be dealt with a little stricter than the typical student.



I, for one, appreciate that with the stakes so high, that BYU still stuck to their principles. There are bigger things than basketball and the NCAA tournament. That is what the schools stands for and they just made it clear. It sounds like Davies made a mistake and I hope he can get it worked out and come back, this year or next, but I am happy that BYU still stands for what it did when I attended. That is why I went there and why I hope my kids can go there.



Also, the ESPN report said "The school said in the release that since the violation just occurred, decisions on Davies' future with the team and in school are still undetermined." It sounds like there is a sliver of hope he may return. And even if not, the ESPN article illustrates why BYU has athletics. The side bar in the article summarizes the honor code, showing the world what the school stands for.

You said it better than my effort. I agree. I hope Brandon stays close and commits to doing what it takes to return, wehever that might be

Dcr36 wrote:

If the tweets are accurate let me summarize the data.

#2. The HC office is still investigating the information and yet they have determined an action. Good one HC office.

#3. We have a BYU Athlete who has "broken the honor code" and although not "dismissed" from BYU, has been dismissed from the team. Ya, thats consistent implementation or is that execution (pun intended) of Honor.

You're either misunderstanding or misconstruing #2. If we're reading the same tweets, Brandon Davies isn't so much "still under investigation" as much as he is "status to be determined." It sounds like they need more time to make a decision, not to investigate what happened.



#3 means nothing. If you served a mission: did a kid ever get demoted to Junior, but not sent home? Same thing. Harsher in practice here, obviously, but still the same concept.

MOre time to make a decision.......hmmm..... about what? Whether he stays in school and whether getting kicked off the bball team is sufficient punishment to help him change his ways? My points (in 2 and 3), exactly.

Oh, and by the way, good job HC office to drag out this public display of judgment.



I got news for some of you who are afraid to criticize the HC office: they arent the angels in heaven and its not criticizing The Brethren.

Isola wrote:
Wow...just wow. Not so much at Davies, but at so-called BYU fans.



It is a bummer for Davies and for the team, but I am not ready to write off the season just yet. This team was made to run, and a post up center isn't super important in that sort of offense. They're definitely helpful, but not essential. Magnusson, Anderson and Rogers are going to have to step up and play more minutes, but I still like BYU's chances at a 1 or 2 seed and a deep run into the tourney.



As for many of the comments here, what Brigham Young University are you a fan of? BYU stands for something. BYU students are given a serious tuition discount to represent the school and the church the best way they can. This is doubly true for athletes. They get a free-ride and top notch facilities in exchange for representing the school well. They represent the school in a much more prominent way, and therefore may be dealt with a little stricter than the typical student.



I, for one, appreciate that with the stakes so high, that BYU still stuck to their principles. There are bigger things than basketball and the NCAA tournament. That is what the schools stands for and they just made it clear. It sounds like Davies made a mistake and I hope he can get it worked out and come back, this year or next, but I am happy that BYU still stands for what it did when I attended. That is why I went there and why I hope my kids can go there.



Also, the ESPN report said "The school said in the release that since the violation just occurred, decisions on Davies' future with the team and in school are still undetermined." It sounds like there is a sliver of hope he may return. And even if not, the ESPN article illustrates why BYU has athletics. The side bar in the article summarizes the honor code, showing the world what the school stands for.

I agree.



However, Isola, a regular student can violate the honor code, be put on probation, etc. and their standing not be affected in any shape or form.



A student athlete, however, sticks their little toe across the line and they're suspended from the team. Seems to me, if you're still able to attend the school you should still be able to play for the team. Why the difference?

Isola wrote:
Wow...just wow. Not so much at Davies, but at so-called BYU fans.



It is a bummer for Davies and for the team, but I am not ready to write off the season just yet. This team was made to run, and a post up center isn't super important in that sort of offense. They're definitely helpful, but not essential. Magnusson, Anderson and Rogers are going to have to step up and play more minutes, but I still like BYU's chances at a 1 or 2 seed and a deep run into the tourney.



As for many of the comments here, what Brigham Young University are you a fan of? BYU stands for something. BYU students are given a serious tuition discount to represent the school and the church the best way they can. This is doubly true for athletes. They get a free-ride and top notch facilities in exchange for representing the school well. They represent the school in a much more prominent way, and therefore may be dealt with a little stricter than the typical student.



I, for one, appreciate that with the stakes so high, that BYU still stuck to their principles. There are bigger things than basketball and the NCAA tournament. That is what the schools stands for and they just made it clear. It sounds like Davies made a mistake and I hope he can get it worked out and come back, this year or next, but I am happy that BYU still stands for what it did when I attended. That is why I went there and why I hope my kids can go there.



Also, the ESPN report said "The school said in the release that since the violation just occurred, decisions on Davies' future with the team and in school are still undetermined." It sounds like there is a sliver of hope he may return. And even if not, the ESPN article illustrates why BYU has athletics. The side bar in the article summarizes the honor code, showing the world what the school stands for.

Well said ISola... end of story for me.

dmcougar wrote:

I got news for some of you who are afraid to criticize the HC office: they arent the angels in heaven and its not criticizing The Brethren.

I don't think some are "afraid" to criticize...I think some find it counter productive to personal improvement. ;)

dmcougar wrote:

dmcougar wrote:
If the tweets are accurate let me summarize the data.

#2. The HC office is still investigating the information and yet they have determined an action. Good one HC office.

#3. We have a BYU Athlete who has "broken the honor code" and although not "dismissed" from BYU, has been dismissed from the team. Ya, thats consistent implementation or is that execution (pun intended) of Honor.

You're either misunderstanding or misconstruing #2. If we're reading the same tweets, Brandon Davies isn't so much "still under investigation" as much as he is "status to be determined." It sounds like they need more time to make a decision, not to investigate what happened.



#3 means nothing. If you served a mission: did a kid ever get demoted to Junior, but not sent home? Same thing. Harsher in practice here, obviously, but still the same concept.

MOre time to make a decision.......hmmm..... about what? Whether he stays in school and whether getting kicked off the bball team is sufficient punishment to help him change his ways? My points (in 2 and 3), exactly.

Oh, and by the way, good job HC office to drag out this public display of judgment.



I got news for some of you who are afraid to criticize the HC office: they arent the angels in heaven and its not criticizing The Brethren.

How dare you, dmcougar! It's a perfect system! It's all these imperfect athletes coming along and messing the beautiful system up!

Gunk wrote:

Wow...just wow. Not so much at Davies, but at so-called BYU fans.



It is a bummer for Davies and for the team, but I am not ready to write off the season just yet. This team was made to run, and a post up center isn't super important in that sort of offense. They're definitely helpful, but not essential. Magnusson, Anderson and Rogers are going to have to step up and play more minutes, but I still like BYU's chances at a 1 or 2 seed and a deep run into the tourney.



As for many of the comments here, what Brigham Young University are you a fan of? BYU stands for something. BYU students are given a serious tuition discount to represent the school and the church the best way they can. This is doubly true for athletes. They get a free-ride and top notch facilities in exchange for representing the school well. They represent the school in a much more prominent way, and therefore may be dealt with a little stricter than the typical student.



I, for one, appreciate that with the stakes so high, that BYU still stuck to their principles. There are bigger things than basketball and the NCAA tournament. That is what the schools stands for and they just made it clear. It sounds like Davies made a mistake and I hope he can get it worked out and come back, this year or next, but I am happy that BYU still stands for what it did when I attended. That is why I went there and why I hope my kids can go there.



Also, the ESPN report said "The school said in the release that since the violation just occurred, decisions on Davies' future with the team and in school are still undetermined." It sounds like there is a sliver of hope he may return. And even if not, the ESPN article illustrates why BYU has athletics. The side bar in the article summarizes the honor code, showing the world what the school stands for.

I agree.



However, Isola, a regular student can violate the honor code, be put on probation, etc. and their standing not be affected in any shape or form.



A student athlete, however, sticks their little toe across the line and they're suspended from the team. Seems to me, if you're still able to attend the school you should still be able to play for the team. Why the difference?

Well said Gunk. Beginning of story for me.

dmcougar wrote:

dmcougar wrote:
If the tweets are accurate let me summarize the data.

#2. The HC office is still investigating the information and yet they have determined an action. Good one HC office.

#3. We have a BYU Athlete who has "broken the honor code" and although not "dismissed" from BYU, has been dismissed from the team. Ya, thats consistent implementation or is that execution (pun intended) of Honor.

You're either misunderstanding or misconstruing #2. If we're reading the same tweets, Brandon Davies isn't so much "still under investigation" as much as he is "status to be determined." It sounds like they need more time to make a decision, not to investigate what happened.



#3 means nothing. If you served a mission: did a kid ever get demoted to Junior, but not sent home? Same thing. Harsher in practice here, obviously, but still the same concept.

MOre time to make a decision.......hmmm..... about what? Whether he stays in school and whether getting kicked off the bball team is sufficient punishment to help him change his ways? My points (in 2 and 3), exactly.

Oh, and by the way, good job HC office to drag out this public display of judgment.



I got news for some of you who are afraid to criticize the HC office: they arent the angels in heaven and its not criticizing The Brethren.

YOu do know that it was Carrie Jenkins of BYU who issued the release confirming the dismissal after the Daily Herald asked for information/details. This was NOT the HC deciding to willy nilly tell the world what's up today. I have no problem criticizing where criticizing is due, but let's keep it grounded in fact not assumption

Gunk wrote:

Dcr36 wrote:

If the tweets are accurate let me summarize the data.

#2. The HC office is still investigating the information and yet they have determined an action. Good one HC office.

#3. We have a BYU Athlete who has "broken the honor code" and although not "dismissed" from BYU, has been dismissed from the team. Ya, thats consistent implementation or is that execution (pun intended) of Honor.

You're either misunderstanding or misconstruing #2. If we're reading the same tweets, Brandon Davies isn't so much "still under investigation" as much as he is "status to be determined." It sounds like they need more time to make a decision, not to investigate what happened.



#3 means nothing. If you served a mission: did a kid ever get demoted to Junior, but not sent home? Same thing. Harsher in practice here, obviously, but still the same concept.

MOre time to make a decision.......hmmm..... about what? Whether he stays in school and whether getting kicked off the bball team is sufficient punishment to help him change his ways? My points (in 2 and 3), exactly.

Oh, and by the way, good job HC office to drag out this public display of judgment.



I got news for some of you who are afraid to criticize the HC office: they arent the angels in heaven and its not criticizing The Brethren.

How dare you, dmcougar! It's a perfect system! It's all these imperfect athletes coming along and messing the beautiful system up!

VERY WELL SAID. Hawk, kick me off the team. I'm smiting the HC office with the......my.... jawbone!!!

dmcougar wrote:

dmcougar wrote:

dmcougar wrote:
If the tweets are accurate let me summarize the data.

#2. The HC office is still investigating the information and yet they have determined an action. Good one HC office.

#3. We have a BYU Athlete who has "broken the honor code" and although not "dismissed" from BYU, has been dismissed from the team. Ya, thats consistent implementation or is that execution (pun intended) of Honor.

You're either misunderstanding or misconstruing #2. If we're reading the same tweets, Brandon Davies isn't so much "still under investigation" as much as he is "status to be determined." It sounds like they need more time to make a decision, not to investigate what happened.



#3 means nothing. If you served a mission: did a kid ever get demoted to Junior, but not sent home? Same thing. Harsher in practice here, obviously, but still the same concept.

MOre time to make a decision.......hmmm..... about what? Whether he stays in school and whether getting kicked off the bball team is sufficient punishment to help him change his ways? My points (in 2 and 3), exactly.

Oh, and by the way, good job HC office to drag out this public display of judgment.



I got news for some of you who are afraid to criticize the HC office: they arent the angels in heaven and its not criticizing The Brethren.

How dare you, dmcougar! It's a perfect system! It's all these imperfect athletes coming along and messing the beautiful system up!

VERY WELL SAID. Hawk, kick me off the team. I'm smiting the HC office with the......my.... jawbone!!!

You don't need to be kicked off; you're doing a good job of hurting yourself all by yourself by making assumptions that so far are just that--assumptions. I am NOT defending the HC office. I am defending the need to deal with this based upon actual fact and not supposition

Gunk wrote:

Wow...just wow. Not so much at Davies, but at so-called BYU fans.



It is a bummer for Davies and for the team, but I am not ready to write off the season just yet. This team was made to run, and a post up center isn't super important in that sort of offense. They're definitely helpful, but not essential. Magnusson, Anderson and Rogers are going to have to step up and play more minutes, but I still like BYU's chances at a 1 or 2 seed and a deep run into the tourney.



As for many of the comments here, what Brigham Young University are you a fan of? BYU stands for something. BYU students are given a serious tuition discount to represent the school and the church the best way they can. This is doubly true for athletes. They get a free-ride and top notch facilities in exchange for representing the school well. They represent the school in a much more prominent way, and therefore may be dealt with a little stricter than the typical student.



I, for one, appreciate that with the stakes so high, that BYU still stuck to their principles. There are bigger things than basketball and the NCAA tournament. That is what the schools stands for and they just made it clear. It sounds like Davies made a mistake and I hope he can get it worked out and come back, this year or next, but I am happy that BYU still stands for what it did when I attended. That is why I went there and why I hope my kids can go there.



Also, the ESPN report said "The school said in the release that since the violation just occurred, decisions on Davies' future with the team and in school are still undetermined." It sounds like there is a sliver of hope he may return. And even if not, the ESPN article illustrates why BYU has athletics. The side bar in the article summarizes the honor code, showing the world what the school stands for.

I agree.



However, Isola, a regular student can violate the honor code, be put on probation, etc. and their standing not be affected in any shape or form.



A student athlete, however, sticks their little toe across the line and they're suspended from the team. Seems to me, if you're still able to attend the school you should still be able to play for the team. Why the difference?

I think the difference is that when I was a student I wasn't on national television in a jersey that had my name on back and "Brigham Young" on the front. The average student represents the University in a passive manner, while the athletes represent the school in a very active and public manner.



Or in another way, if you or I had knocked up our girl friend or got cited for underage drinking while at BYU, it would not have ended up on the front page of ESPN. High profile activities translate to high profile consequences.