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The way you will know that Bronco has faced the music

by mcgregor · 10/27/2009

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cachevalleycougar
I certainly wouldn't say we have NO talent at CB. They're not McCain and Smith like Utah had last year, but they're pretty good. Certainly better than most at tackling and run support, and better than decent at coverage.

Honestly, how many "big plays" have our CBs given up all year. You could count them on one hand. How many big plays has Jacobsen himself had against opposing CBs this year? Probably twice as many.
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cougsnspurs4life
you are right about no big plays, but that is not the problem. Count up total yards on 3 or 5 yard outs, and I am sure that it is a lot. They don't press at all, and that is the problem that we have. They let the person catch the ball, and then try and tackle him within one or two yards. That to me is a mistake... I would rather test the qb's arm deep and give up a potential big play sometimes, instead of a guaranteed 5 yds every play... and let's not take the wyoming game too seriously, it is wyoming, after all.
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cachevalleycougar
cougsnspurs4life wrote:
you are right about no big plays, but that is not the problem. Count up total yards on 3 or 5 yard outs, and I am sure that it is a lot. They don't press at all, and that is the problem that we have. They let the person catch the ball, and then try and tackle him within one or two yards. That to me is a mistake... I would rather test the qb's arm deep and give up a potential big play sometimes, instead of a guaranteed 5 yds every play... and let's not take the wyoming game too seriously, it is wyoming, after all.

How many teams have done that this year? Last year that was a major issue - they were consistently 7-10 yards off the ball. Not this year. They're usually up within 5 yards. Logan alone has broken up multiple passes out to the flats where we were exploited last year.

Again, how many pass plays does BYU complete on the sides 0-8 yards out every game? More than is being completed against us.

The DBs are not the weakness in our defense.
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jonnylingo
cougsnspurs4life wrote:
you are right about no big plays, but that is not the problem. Count up total yards on 3 or 5 yard outs, and I am sure that it is a lot. They don't press at all, and that is the problem that we have. They let the person catch the ball, and then try and tackle him within one or two yards. That to me is a mistake... I would rather test the qb's arm deep and give up a potential big play sometimes, instead of a guaranteed 5 yds every play... and let's not take the wyoming game too seriously, it is wyoming, after all.


I wouldn't blame the dbs for that. It is the coaches who set the defensive system and scheme. Give them credit. they are playing closer this year than last year because they are better than the talent last year. Logan is one of the best pass break up cbs in the country. our cornerbacks are HARDLY this defense's problem in my opinion. It I had to point to our biggest weakness I would say its our inside linebackers.
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mcgregor
cougsnspurs4life wrote:

I am wondering if you think it is the players' fault then, or that we don't have the right tools on defense. We have NO talent at CB (his former position coaching) and haven't had any since before his time. What is wrong with our defense in your eyes? Is it that he has a great vision and ability, and they are not talented or smart enough to capture that? Thanks. I am not opposing here, I am just trying to understand...


In my opinion, these are the best DB's Hill has had since he's been here, and the best BYU has had in a long, long time.



In my humble opinion, our problem right now is between the MLBers and the DL.
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cougsnspurs4life
I agree about this being the best CB talent that we have had in 3 years. They just lack a little experience, but are getting it. I would also point at the MLB/ILB as the real problem. Our safeties are going to be good for a long time, so we are good there. Pendleton is a beast, and clawson can lay some wood. I want to go back to the question if it is the defenses inability to perform (either physically or mentally), or the DC's inability to "pass it on." I think that he has solid talent in Pendleton (I'm so glad he is out of the doghouse, and finally found a home at lb... talent that raw does not deserve to sit), talent going back to 4 deep in the safeties, decent corners, okay LB's and an okay line. That doesn't spell greatness in a 3-4. because your LBs become double important in this setting. What I have trouble with, is in a game like TCU, FSU, SDSU, and others - is when the gameplan isn't working, you have to make the adjustments necessary to throw the other team off their rhythm. I have not seen those adjustments. Is that because the players only know those defensive sets, so they can't go off of anything else (limited practice, maybe?) It is just hard to get blown out by teams that you should either beat, or come close to and not know why... Why not try and throw a dime in there for emergency situations when the 3-5 yard outside pass is killing them. I think that our backup lineman are as talented as the inside LBs are. Maybe give them some flexibility?
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northerncougar
mcgregor wrote:
Mcgregor,



thanks for the insight. Has BYU really been able to take advantage of its recruiting advantage? THey've lost players to honor code, academics and prima donna issues. They have players on missions who have yet to contribute since Bronco started recruiting. Is it fair to judge the coaching staff, even though it's been 5 seasons since Bronco took over, given some of the personnel problems the team has had to endure? They are getting there, but I think the team really is 1-2 seasons away from becoming as dominate on defense as TCU and the ewetes have been the past 2 seasons. (The defenses of the 06 and 07 seasons were great, but the MWC was much weaker then than now too.)



I'm still willing to give Hill and Anae the benefit of the doubt at least 1-2 more seasons once Bronco's recruits are fully in place. Further, unless they run the table in the MWC again, the DC and OC aren't going anywhere as the offers won't be there.



And as others have mentioned on this thread, I'd love to see Ty Detmer join the staff sooner rather than later.



BTW, TCU has the largest athletic budget in the MWC, even more than BYU's.




1. I have always asserted that Bronco's evaluation must be considered on a time line much longer than other coaches. In a typical and ideal setting, a coach needs at least 5 years to pull a shipwrecked program together; fewer years if he takes over from a ship-jumping coach (eg. Whittingham taking over for Meyer--Meyer left the cupboard pretty well-stocked and with a superb framework for success).



Bronco took over a program in utter shambles, with absolutely NO pipeline. None. First, he had to prove to future recruits that he was a winner, and he had to do with a lot of walk-ons. Then once he proved himself, he could get some better recruits, but then most left on missions. Those are just getting back, but we still need to give them time to develop. Finally, Bronco is able to get an entire class of quality recruits this year. Many will go on missions. The ones that stay in the program still need development time.



Bronco is simply operating under a unique set of circumstances.



2. I think Ty would seriously consider an offer to join the staff if presented one.



3. TCU has a strong, and generally wealthy, alumni base. My best friend in high school was an all-American there, and he's given me a little insight into that school. It's a pretty campus; I only wish they could inspire more Fort Worthians to go to the games.


I am in Dallas for business this week and a local sports radio station was discussing the TCU/Utah game. They reported that the game is sold out and is standing room only. At least this game will get people there.
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cachevalleycougar
cougsnspurs4life - which is it...."we have NO talent at CB" or this is "the best CB talent we've had in 3 years." It seems like you're trying to stir up a fire that's not really there. What's your real beef about?
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Lawboy
I think the issue this year has been the DL's inability to consistently get pressure/penetration. They did a much better job at Wyoming and it really helped. I loved he blitzing we did Saturday. I like it when this D plays more aggressively because they look faster and play better. When they sit back and react, they do look slower. Bring the pressure and let the guys make plays.
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CAFB_04-12
cachevalleycougar wrote:
cougsnspurs4life - which is it...."we have NO talent at CB" or this is "the best CB talent we've had in 3 years." It seems like you're trying to stir up a fire that's not really there. What's your real beef about?

crickets...
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UliUli79
While I usually don't feel like I have a lot to add to most of these conversations, there is something that hasn't been mentioned. On the Wyoming after-game show on KSL they talked about a conversation they had with Bronco before the game. They said that in this conversation they discussed Bronco's timetable in regards to his goals for BYU being national contenders. As stated earlier this isn't a short-term plan. It's a 10 year plan and Bronco stated that he felt like it was right on schedule.



The short of it is that we're right in the middle of something in the making. Let's have some patience and see where it goes. :)
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CAFB_04-12
I think what he said is that he felt that after 5 years he believed the team was "about halfway" to the lofty goals he has set. My belief is that growth is not linear. It probably looks more like the DOW. Steady growth over time but with highs and lows. I expect a plateau next year with some serious rebuilding at QB, and perhaps TE and RB.
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BroncoBot
I'm actually already excited about next year for a couple of reasons. First of all, it will be nice to see some different players at different positions. I'm not going to name names. Secondly, my expectations couldn't have been higher this year which added a lot of stress to my Saturdays. Next year I'll just sit back and enjoy the season. Win or lose, I'll still be cheering for the cougars and just loving football again.
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UliUli79
CAFB_04-12 wrote:
I think what he said is that he felt that after 5 years he believed the team was "about halfway" to the lofty goals he has set. My belief is that growth is not linear. It probably looks more like the DOW. Steady growth over time but with highs and lows. I expect a plateau next year with some serious rebuilding at QB, and perhaps TE and RB.


This wouldn't mark the first time I've misundertood something. Nor the last. Believe it or not, I'm looking forward to next year. It will say a lot about where the program is. So many question marks can result in a lot of excitement.
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CAFB_04-12
declocoug wrote:
I'm actually already excited about next year for a couple of reasons. First of all, it will be nice to see some different players at different positions. I'm not going to name names. Secondly, my expectations couldn't have been higher this year which added a lot of stress to my Saturdays. Next year I'll just sit back and enjoy the season. Win or lose, I'll still be cheering for the cougars and just loving football again.

I'm right there with you. My expectations this year were simply way too high. Beating OU didn't help either. With such an experienced cast of players I really had the expectations that we would be in the BCS bowls. Beating OU made me think that a BCS Championship wasn't out of the question. Losing to FSU was catastrophic. Losing to TCU killed the secondary goal of winning the conference.



I think BYU is a very good team, and I enjoy watching every game. Next year it will be easier to stomach the losses.
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Cougy_Monster
UliUli79 wrote:
They said that in this conversation they discussed Bronco's timetable in regards to his goals for BYU being national contenders. As stated earlier this isn't a short-term plan. It's a 10 year plan and Bronco stated that he felt like it was right on schedule.


That actually works out quite well. If we start a fund now we'll have the money to buy up the tix and fill the stadium with Cougar faithful.
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CAFB_04-12
UliUli79 wrote:
While I usually don't feel like I have a lot to add to most of these conversations, there is something that hasn't been mentioned. On the Wyoming after-game show on KSL they talked about a conversation they had with Bronco before the game. They said that in this conversation they discussed Bronco's timetable in regards to his goals for BYU being national contenders. As stated earlier this isn't a short-term plan. It's a 10 year plan and Bronco stated that he felt like it was right on schedule.



The short of it is that we're right in the middle of something in the making. Let's have some patience and see where it goes. :)

Well, according to Ben Criddle on Quinn Gooch's blog, you are actually right on.



http://deepshadesofblue.com/broncos-prospectus/comment-page-1/#comment-7663



This is an excellent read and an interesting insight into Coach Mendenhall and his goals for the program.
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Mars
CAFB_04-12 wrote:
http://deepshadesofblue.com/broncos-prospectus/comment-page-1/#comment-7663

"Garn said:



I wish there was a way for Coach Mendenhall, Max Hall, etc., to know that there are those of us out here that are very proud of the way they represent themselves and BYU on and off the field. There are those of us that dislike the typical win-or-else fans as much as those mentioned above. Unfortunately, it seems that the negative fans get the press... Ironically, it are these same fans that in a much smaller scale have made me move away from doing my weekly highlights. It gets tough to put them together when all you get is criticism on song choice, or highlighting a losing effort. I could go on and on…"
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cachevalleycougar
It does seem that there are a lot of people that can't get over themelves and their expectations this year. CougarBlue is full of them. I don't know if it's just the general expectations coming into this season with a senior QB and proven TE/RB, or if a lot of it happened after the OU win, but either way too many people have been too harsh on the coaching staff and specific players - most of it unwarranted and baseless (to think that a month ago people were calling for Max Hall's head, and a few still are!).

I admit that after the OU game I thought "this will be our year," but I'll also admit I entered the season expecting 10-2 and hoping for 11-1; I just didn't expect BYU to beat OU, FSU, TCU and Utah. So I've just had to remind myself that we're right where I expected us to be. Losing to Utah would be a huge disappointment, but I don't see it happening yet.

Over the last few weeks, Bronco has made repeated references to the "ignorance" of fans, to their unreal expectations, to their undeserved criticism...even going so far as pointing out that the team enjoys the away games because they can get away from the critical fans. HOW SAD IS THAT?!?

I suppose I'd think that it's maybe a "new generation" thing expecting immediate gratification, but from the comments of many of you at games, it doesn't seem to be coming from the studentbody alone.
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Cougy_Monster
cachevalleycougar wrote:
It does seem that there are a lot of people that can't get over themelves and their expectations this year. CougarBlue is full of them. I don't know if it's just the general expectations coming into this season with a senior QB and proven TE/RB, or if a lot of it happened after the OU win, but either way too many people have been too harsh on the coaching staff and specific players - most of it unwarranted and baseless (to think that a month ago people were calling for Max Hall's head, and a few still are!).

I admit that after the OU game I thought "this will be our year," but I'll also admit I entered the season expecting 10-2 and hoping for 11-1; I just didn't expect BYU to beat OU, FSU, TCU and Utah. So I've just had to remind myself that we're right where I expected us to be. Losing to Utah would be a huge disappointment, but I don't see it happening yet.

Over the last few weeks, Bronco has made repeated references to the "ignorance" of fans, to their unreal expectations, to their undeserved criticism...even going so far as pointing out that the team enjoys the away games because they can get away from the critical fans. HOW SAD IS THAT?!?

I suppose I'd think that it's maybe a "new generation" thing expecting immediate gratification, but from the comments of many of you at games, it doesn't seem to be coming from the studentbody alone.


I agree that fans can be overcritical. I have my likes and dislikes about how things play out through the season (like our lack of offensive halftime adjustments), but I love Bronco's coaching style and I support the coaches and teams 100% and realize they are in the thick of things and I'm just watching from home.



I also think Bronco would benefit himself and the team by treading lightly when criticizing fans. I personally haven't heard or read him use the word "ignorant" when describing fans, and if he did it wouldn't bother me since I'm a blue-goggled homer and I've been a fan a long time and will be so long after the current coaches and players are gone. But, there are a lot of not-so-stalwart fans out there that still love the school and the team....and although they may be critical (and ignorant) I believe they are valuable to the team. The quickest way to alienate them is to call them ignorant or say the team likes away games where they can't show up.



Again, I can't say that I've heard Bronco being critical of the fans or liking away games, But, I do recall him recently saying how much he loved the large fan base that travels with the team since he views them as faithful die-hards. Maybe in that context he also was implying that the wishy-washy fans were left behind and that's a good thing.
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