Matt Carlino!!

Wolverine wrote:

Team played better with Cusick on the floor, and Cusick didn't make any huge mistakes. Team struggled to put things together with Carlino on the floor, and Carlino had some boneheaded turnovers and took some horribly ill-advised shots in crunchtime when we needed quality possessions.



In the long run Carlino is the guy, but until he gets up to speed and the team figures out how to play with him at the point, Cusick should remain our starter and closer.

Gets up to speed? He has been practicing with this team for over a year now. If he is not "up to speed" by now, he never will be. Now if we are only referring to the fact that he hasn't been on the floor in "game" situations with this team and that it what he needs in order to get "up to speed", well that won't ever happen sitting on the bench behind Cusick. I agree wholeheartedly with Rose's thinking on this one...the upside is far greater with Carlino playing significant minutes now even if it means a few "growing pains" for this team at the present time. The pay-off down the road this season will be well worth it in my humble opinion.

Like I said--we should have waited til after Baylor because I think we win the Baylor game without Carlino. He needs to be brought up to speed as to in-game situations, and I think it should have been done at a different time. I think he needs to prove the team is better with him coming off the bench before we make him the starter.

snoscythe wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
Team played better with Cusick on the floor, and Cusick didn't make any huge mistakes. Team struggled to put things together with Carlino on the floor, and Carlino had some boneheaded turnovers and took some horribly ill-advised shots in crunchtime when we needed quality possessions.



In the long run Carlino is the guy, but until he gets up to speed and the team figures out how to play with him at the point, Cusick should remain our starter and closer.

Gets up to speed? He has been practicing with this team for over a year now. If he is not "up to speed" by now, he never will be. Now if we are only referring to the fact that he hasn't been on the floor in "game" situations with this team and that it what he needs in order to get "up to speed", well that won't ever happen sitting on the bench behind Cusick. I agree wholeheartedly with Rose's thinking on this one...the upside is far greater with Carlino playing significant minutes now even if it means a few "growing pains" for this team at the present time. The pay-off down the road this season will be well worth it in my humble opinion.

Like I said--we should have waited til after Baylor because I think we win the Baylor game without Carlino. He needs to be brought up to speed as to in-game situations, and I think it should have been done at a different time. I think he needs to prove the team is better with him coming off the bench before we make him the starter.

Would have been a blow out without those 18 points from Carlino. No question. Baylor keyed in on Davies in the 2nd half and he wasn't as effective. Cusic and Zylstra were practically dead weight out on the court. They represented no threat to Baylor. Carlino did, which meant Baylor had to be honest and couldn't camp out in the middle.



Carlino opened things up for Noah, Davies and Abouo.



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Gunk wrote:

Wolverine wrote:

Team played better with Cusick on the floor, and Cusick didn't make any huge mistakes. Team struggled to put things together with Carlino on the floor, and Carlino had some boneheaded turnovers and took some horribly ill-advised shots in crunchtime when we needed quality possessions.



In the long run Carlino is the guy, but until he gets up to speed and the team figures out how to play with him at the point, Cusick should remain our starter and closer.

Gets up to speed? He has been practicing with this team for over a year now. If he is not "up to speed" by now, he never will be. Now if we are only referring to the fact that he hasn't been on the floor in "game" situations with this team and that it what he needs in order to get "up to speed", well that won't ever happen sitting on the bench behind Cusick. I agree wholeheartedly with Rose's thinking on this one...the upside is far greater with Carlino playing significant minutes now even if it means a few "growing pains" for this team at the present time. The pay-off down the road this season will be well worth it in my humble opinion.

Like I said--we should have waited til after Baylor because I think we win the Baylor game without Carlino. He needs to be brought up to speed as to in-game situations, and I think it should have been done at a different time. I think he needs to prove the team is better with him coming off the bench before we make him the starter.

Would have been a blow out without those 18 points from Carlino. No question. Baylor keyed in on Davies in the 2nd half and he wasn't as effective. Cusic and Zylstra were practically dead weight out on the court. They represented no threat to Baylor. Carlino did, which meant Baylor had to be honest and couldn't camp out in the middle.



Carlino opened things up for Noah, Davies and Abouo.



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So why was the team -9 with Carlino on the floor (2:4 asst to TO ratio), but +4 with Cusick on the floor (4:1)? :skeptic:



When you look at the Roland Rating for clutch play, its an even greater discrepancy--Carlino at -15 in clutch play, Cusick at +11. Even "dead-weight Zylstra" (3:3 ato) was more valuable to the team at -5 and -7 in the clutch than Carlino.



You say Hartsock, Davies and Abouo were opened up when Carlino was on the floor? Abouo was our best +/- guy on Saturday at +10. He was in the + range every time Cusick was on the floor---the only time he went negative? When Cusick was off the floor and Carlino was running things Abouo had his -2 over a two minute span. Hartsock was +7 in the first half when Cusick played 10:41 and Carlino played 9:29. In the second half Carlino played 15:10, and Hartsock plummetted to -7. Same with Davies: +11 first half, -7 second half. Carlino "opening the floor up" for the other guys doesn't bear out in watching the game, and the stats show the opposite effect.



When Carlino was on the floor, BYU was worse than Baylor. BYU started Cusick in the second half and went +3 over the first few mintues. They subbed him out for Carlino, and promptly went -13. With Cusick on the floor, the team played better and the stats bear it out.

Wow. Hats off Sno! Nice analysis. its almost counter-intuitive given he scored 18.

BUt whether Baylor deserves credit for shutting down Davies and Hart in the 2nd half(wouldn't Baylor have game-prepped for them?) or whether they disappeared and didn't play full out the whole game (BD has been doing this in several games) or as the stats support, they fell asleep a little counting on Carlino, I don't know yet. We need more data (full game) points. BD and NH did play a strong 1st half. maybe that is all they have in them--I wouldn't think so. NH has been pretty consistent.

So, when Cusick is on the floor others know they most score. When MC is on the floor, AGAIN, it kind of becomes The Jimmer show. And MC is happy to oblige. Something to watch for!

Cant wait for tonight. GO COUGS!

Not sure how all these +/- stats actually fit into wins/losses or how they actually correlated to a player's true performance. I never see sports analysts using the +/- logic in discussions unless they are trying to prove an obscure hypothesis. If we were in the neighborhood picking teams today I would pick Carlino to be on my team way before Cusik. Coach Rose seems to be of the same opinion as he is starting Carlino tonight. I'm not sure why there is so much negativity toward Carlino and his one game, Would you have expected more from him this game?



An aside: Why are people still making comments about starting a Freshman and how it will ruin the team. 1) this is not football. Freshmen start and succeed in NCAA BBall all the time. Some even skip college and go straight to the NBA. 2) Unlike football, Upperclassmen can be directly compared to thier Freshmen counterparts in practice, 1-on-1. There is little doubt who is better in BBall. 3) Carlino has been with the team for a year. The team knows who the best players are.

BYULV wrote:
Not sure how all these +/- stats actually fit into wins/losses or how they actually correlated to a player's true performance. I never see sports analysts using the +/- logic in discussions unless they are trying to prove an obscure hypothesis. If we were in the neighborhood picking teams today I would pick Carlino to be on my team way before Cusik. Coach Rose seems to be of the same opinion as he is starting Carlino tonight. I'm not sure why there is so much negativity toward Carlino and his one game, Would you have expected more from him this game?

I'm not trying to be negative. I am just backing up my statement that I wish we would have waited one game to field Carlino, because Baylor was our last chance to get a marquee win out of conference. I think that by the time Carlino has played 4 or 5 games, the team will be better with him than with Cusick. There is going to be an adjustment period where the team figures out how to play with Carlino, and I just wish we would have waited until after Baylor to start that, and I think he needs to come off the bench until that time.



Again, not hating on Carlino, just disagreeing with the timing and method of integrating him into the team at this point.

In hockey they use the +/- to rate the players for their effect on goals scored and prevented. It is pretty effective there except for power plays. MC scoring was great but did he get other players to score too? He will get better and they will figure how to get him to fit in.

BYULV wrote:
Not sure how all these +/- stats actually fit into wins/losses or how they actually correlated to a player's true performance. I never see sports analysts using the +/- logic in discussions unless they are trying to prove an obscure hypothesis. If we were in the neighborhood picking teams today I would pick Carlino to be on my team way before Cusik. Coach Rose seems to be of the same opinion as he is starting Carlino tonight. I'm not sure why there is so much negativity toward Carlino and his one game, Would you have expected more from him this game?



An aside: Why are people still making comments about starting a Freshman and how it will ruin the team. 1) this is not football. Freshmen start and succeed in NCAA BBall all the time. Some even skip college and go straight to the NBA. 2) Unlike football, Upperclassmen can be directly compared to thier Freshmen counterparts in practice, 1-on-1. There is little doubt who is better in BBall. 3) Carlino has been with the team for a year. The team knows who the best players are.

Upper classmen in any sport have a tendency to get jealous when freshman---or people who haven't "paid their dues" get the start over them. In this case its about touches and shots. If you think that this team is immune to that, great. I hope they are. Now if that frosh delivers, great. BUt if, particularly as a point guard, he starts chucking it whenever and the team loses bc of it and bc they are not getting the touches, it will be come an issue.

Rose has managed this pretty well over the years. Jimmer didn't come in a take over for Cummard. He had to learn the ropes.

As for players jumping to the NBA with only one year or in past straight out of HS, name one player at BYU, other than Shawn-freakishly-tall-Bradley who has done so. This team does not deal with those dynamics very often.

dmcougar wrote:

Not sure how all these +/- stats actually fit into wins/losses or how they actually correlated to a player's true performance. I never see sports analysts using the +/- logic in discussions unless they are trying to prove an obscure hypothesis. If we were in the neighborhood picking teams today I would pick Carlino to be on my team way before Cusik. Coach Rose seems to be of the same opinion as he is starting Carlino tonight. I'm not sure why there is so much negativity toward Carlino and his one game, Would you have expected more from him this game?



An aside: Why are people still making comments about starting a Freshman and how it will ruin the team. 1) this is not football. Freshmen start and succeed in NCAA BBall all the time. Some even skip college and go straight to the NBA. 2) Unlike football, Upperclassmen can be directly compared to thier Freshmen counterparts in practice, 1-on-1. There is little doubt who is better in BBall. 3) Carlino has been with the team for a year. The team knows who the best players are.

Upper classmen in any sport have a tendency to get jealous when freshman---or people who haven't "paid their dues" get the start over them. In this case its about touches and shots. If you think that this team is immune to that, great. I hope they are. Now if that frosh delivers, great. BUt if, particularly as a point guard, he starts chucking it whenever and the team loses bc of it and bc they are not getting the touches, it will be come an issue.

Rose has managed this pretty well over the years. Jimmer didn't come in a take over for Cummard. He had to learn the ropes.

As for players jumping to the NBA with only one year or in past straight out of HS, name one player at BYU, other than Shawn-freakishly-tall-Bradley who has done so. This team does not deal with those dynamics very often.

All people, everywhere, feel this way. Typically for good reason. There are rare exceptions, but there are reasons why someone who has worked in an industry for years does not want to be passed over for a promotion to someone straight out of college with a theoretical understanding of how the "game is played" but no real experience.



Of course there are rare times when the young kid comes in and has a better command of the game than the suits sitting there for years, and you have to know when to pick the kid, and when the kid needs seasoning.

Some stats to consider:



Cusick

Minutes - 18

Shooting - 2 pts, 1/3 from the field, 0/2 from 3 point arc

Assists - 4

Rebounds - 0

Blocks - 0

Steals - 0

Turnovers - 1



Carlino

Minutes - 24

Shooting - 18 pts, 7/14 from the field, 4/8 from 3 point arc

Assists - 2

Rebounds - 1

Blocks - 1

Steals - 1

Turnovers - 4



Some other info to consider:



1st Half

13:12 - Matt Carlino enters the game. Baylor is up 18 to 15.

6:24 - Cusick enters the game. BYU is up 26 to 24. In the next four min, Cusic gets 2 assists, both on fast breaks. One from a Davies rebound and the other from a Davies steal. Harrison tears it up.

3:41 - Carlino enters the game. BYU is up 36 to 26. Carlino proceeds to hit a 3 pointer off an assist from Davies

2:20 - Davies fouls and is sent to the bench. Enter Austin. Carlino turns the ball over twice, one on an offensive foul and the other off a steal. Noah misses 1 shot.

1:10 - Cusick enters. BYU is up 33 to 41. Zylstra gets picked, Zylstra misses 2 shots. Winder only makes one free throw, while Baylor scores 5 points. BYU up 42 to 38 at the half.



Actual Analysis - BYU's productivity had more to do with Davies than Cusick or Carlino. Cusick's assists came off transition baskets from either Davies' rebounds or Davies' steals. Productivity stopped when Davies was on the bench, not when Cusick or Carlino entered. 3 of Cusicks assists and all 2 of his points came in the 1st half. Davies went 4/6 in the 1st half and grabbed 8 boards.



2nd Half

20:00 - Cusick starts 2nd half. Gets one assist before sitting. Does nothing else rest of the game.

16:10 - Carlino enters. BYU is up 54 to 47. Carlino turns it over once, resulting in zero points for Baylor. Carlino puts up 7 pts. Other than Zylstra's free throw, he's the only Cougar to score for the next 4 min or so.

8:55 - Cusick enters. BYU is down 64 to 65. Carlino and Cusick are on the court at the same time.

7:13 - Cusick leaves. BYU is down 67 to 73.

5:43 - Carlino leaves after fouling. Cusick enters. BYU is down 70 to 76. Cusick does nothing.

4:42 - Carlino enters. BYU is down 72 to 79.

2:39 - Carlino hits a three to bring BYU within 1. In the last two minutes, Carlino put up 5 points, Davies 2 and Abouo 2.

1:31 - Down by one, Abouo gets a steal. Abouo then turns it over. Baylor turns it over. Carlino turns it over. Baylor goes on to get an offensive rebound and score to go up 86/83.



Actual Analysis - Davies, the key to our offense went cold in the 2nd half. Davies shot 2/9 in the 2nd half and grabbed 5 boards. Carlino put up 15 points in the 2nd half and got us within 1. Carlino turned it over twice resulting in 2 points. Abouo turned the ball over more than Carlino in the 2nd half (3 times). Cusick, did virtually nothing in the 2nd half.



According to +/- stats. In the last five minutes of play when the game was on the line, the only Cougars to have a positive effect on the floor were Carlino and Abouo. Davies finished in the negative for the final 15 min of the game. If it weren't for Davies superb 1st half, Davies would have been a complete liability on the court according to Sno's +/- scale and shouldn't have played against Baylor.



With 10 seconds left, Carlino got a good look at a game winning 3-point shot. It went in-and-out. Had Carlino sunk that shot, we'd all be heaping praises on him, calling for him to start, and the +/- scale would be deemed inaccurate as to a player's worth on the court

Sno's logic and use of numbers would only work if the Baylor team represented one unchanging constant. Which they don't.



The Baylor that BYU played in the final minutes of the first half, and most of the second half was a completely different team than the one that found itself down double digits to the cougs.



I didn't really see the team standing around on offense, more than they normally do. And I wonder why we are even talking about who has more "motion offense" around them, Carlino or Cusick. BYU is not a "motion offense" halfcourt team. You will almost never see offball screens, guys cutting through the lanes w out the ball, etc.



BYU moves the ball around the perimeter, into the post, and back out. That is about it. PG and SG's hardly ever switch side of the court. Basically everyone stands around.



Byu's offense is: Try and get upcourt before the defense sets to get a shot. If that doesn't work, then work the ball around the key to feed the post. That's basically it. There really aren't a lot more moving pieces, imo.

dmcougar wrote:

Not sure how all these +/- stats actually fit into wins/losses or how they actually correlated to a player's true performance. I never see sports analysts using the +/- logic in discussions unless they are trying to prove an obscure hypothesis. If we were in the neighborhood picking teams today I would pick Carlino to be on my team way before Cusik. Coach Rose seems to be of the same opinion as he is starting Carlino tonight. I'm not sure why there is so much negativity toward Carlino and his one game, Would you have expected more from him this game?



An aside: Why are people still making comments about starting a Freshman and how it will ruin the team. 1) this is not football. Freshmen start and succeed in NCAA BBall all the time. Some even skip college and go straight to the NBA. 2) Unlike football, Upperclassmen can be directly compared to thier Freshmen counterparts in practice, 1-on-1. There is little doubt who is better in BBall. 3) Carlino has been with the team for a year. The team knows who the best players are.

Upper classmen in any sport have a tendency to get jealous when freshman---or people who haven't "paid their dues" get the start over them. In this case its about touches and shots. If you think that this team is immune to that, great. I hope they are. Now if that frosh delivers, great. BUt if, particularly as a point guard, he starts chucking it whenever and the team loses bc of it and bc they are not getting the touches, it will be come an issue.

Rose has managed this pretty well over the years. Jimmer didn't come in a take over for Cummard. He had to learn the ropes.

As for players jumping to the NBA with only one year or in past straight out of HS, name one player at BYU, other than Shawn-freakishly-tall-Bradley who has done so. This team does not deal with those dynamics very often.

Carlino is hardly a freshman right out of high school that hasn't paid his dues. He's practiced with the team for a year already. Got put under Jimmer's wing and is quite familiar with the offense and the guys on the team.



Harrison, is a freshman and in the past two years, two true-freshman (Haws & Collinsworth) have started for Rose and contributed significantly with no discord from upper class-men.



In basketball, there are 5 positions with 2/3 players for each position. It's quite obvious among the players who the better player is. In practice, it's not like Martineau is going to go up against Carlino and make a case for being the better player. Martineau knows Carlino is the better player.

A basketball locker room is much smaller than a football locker room, so there are fewer cliques and fewer opportunities for division. That, combined with the different mindset of the coaches (Bronco actively encourages player on the fence about service to go on a mission, Rose has you commit to go or not to go before you sign your LOI and strives to hold the players to that commitment, to the point of asking those who have a change of heart to wait until they are done with hoops to go), leads me to believe that a RM v. non-RM division is highly unlikely in the basketball team.

Great rundown. It makes an interesting game analysis. Story continues.



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Carlino was 3 rebounds away from a triple double. Good to see when he isn't scoring prolifically, he can still contribute.



I'd say that, coupled with Cusicks lack of stellar play the last 2 games, pretty much puts the starting job to rest.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Carlino was 3 rebounds away from a triple double. Good to see when he isn't scoring prolifically, he can still contribute.



I'd say that, coupled with Cusicks lack of stellar play the last 2 games, pretty much puts the starting job to rest.

Carlino had 11 assists, 10 points and 7 boards. 11 assists! I don't think Jimmer ever delivered that many.



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I think carlino has the starting job locked down even if he doesn't score as well, mainly because of how he pushes the ball up the court. Rose loves it when the point pushes it like that.



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BYULV wrote:
I think carlino has the starting job locked down even if he doesn't score as well, mainly because of how he pushes the ball up the court. Rose loves it when the point pushes it like that.



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I actually thought Carlino was faster up the court last night than Jimmer.

Gunk wrote:

Carlino was 3 rebounds away from a triple double. Good to see when he isn't scoring prolifically, he can still contribute.



I'd say that, coupled with Cusicks lack of stellar play the last 2 games, pretty much puts the starting job to rest.

Carlino had 11 assists, 10 points and 7 boards. 11 assists! I don't think Jimmer ever delivered that many.



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That's great and all, but call me when Carlino puts up 49 in a road game against a good opponent.

So you were never a Jimmer fan until that magic night at the McKale Center in Tucson? ;)