Carlino sucked

Carlino will leave byu as one of the best byu point guards byu has ever had. he is very young and has a lot to learn. he has the skills though and once he learns what he needs to learn he will be great.



i expect his junior and senior year to be phenomenal.



People need to relax.

jonnylingo wrote:
Carlino will leave byu as one of the best byu point guards byu has ever had. he is very young and has a lot to learn. he has the skills though and once he learns what he needs to learn he will be great.



i expect his junior and senior year to be phenomenal.



People need to relax.

You've got it all wrong...1. He didn't play as good as Jimmer. 2. Jimmer never had a bad game. 3. He can't hit the 3 like Jimmer. 4. Jimmer scored like 500 points a game as a freshman. 5. Jimmer would have taken us to at least the sweet 16.

If we have players that do not measure up to the Jimmer standard, they suck!!! It's as simple as that. We need to run off all players that do not measure up. In addition, due to the aging population of Jimm.. I mean BYU fans, the Jimmer standard will double every year and in future years will apply to Forwards and Centers. So next year, any center who hits less than 70% from 3 should have his scholarship pulled. We don't need the excess baggage. Basketball is too important for us to wait for the Jimmer wannabees to develop until their Junior or Senior years. Jimmer would have been Player of the Year as a Freshman without the Mormon bias.

jonnylingo wrote:
Carlino will leave byu as one of the best byu point guards byu has ever had. he is very young and has a lot to learn. he has the skills though and once he learns what he needs to learn he will be great.



i expect his junior and senior year to be phenomenal.



People need to relax.

Actually, Matt has some striking similarities to Jake Heaps. I know, apples to oranges, but Matt has streaks of brilliance mixed with a lot of mental errors, turnovers, and offense stifling play. Cusick by contrast, helped facilitate offense--like Riley N. Matt has a tendency to be selfish and create for himself not necessarily others.

Rose seemed to keep Jimmer in check his freshman year. I'm not sure he was able to keep Matt in check. Matt's best game was his first. His worst were the last several games. What trend does that sound like?

I think Matt will turn it around. And I don't think the hoops team is as prone to anti-non-returned missionary-isms as the football team is.

dmcougar wrote:

Carlino will leave byu as one of the best byu point guards byu has ever had. he is very young and has a lot to learn. he has the skills though and once he learns what he needs to learn he will be great.



i expect his junior and senior year to be phenomenal.



People need to relax.

Actually, Matt has some striking similarities to Jake Heaps. I know, apples to oranges, but Matt has streaks of brilliance mixed with a lot of mental errors, turnovers, and offense stifling play. Cusick by contrast, helped facilitate offense--like Riley N. Matt has a tendency to be selfish and create for himself not necessarily others.

Rose seemed to keep Jimmer in check his freshman year. I'm not sure he was able to keep Matt in check. Matt's best game was his first. His worst were the last several games. What trend does that sound like?

I think Matt will turn it around. And I don't think the hoops team is as prone to anti-non-returned missionary-isms as the football team is.

How quickly people forget.



Jimmer played the 2 his freshman and sophomore years. He didn't switch to PG until his Junior year. So comparing freshman Carlino to freshman Jimmer really is an apples to oranges comparison. Start comparing the two when Carlino is a Junior. That's when Jimmer started playing PG.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

The point is that I can remember when Jimmer had to hold back and it was clear he was frustrated not getting the ball. He had to wait his turn. I did not see carlino with much of a bridle. Rose would yank him and late n the year just not play him as much. But Carlino is like a willful horse that does not want constraints or has too short of a memory to remember that he just can't jack up 3's without regard to what is happening in the game.

I like this kid. I like his energy and finesse. And yes he is a freshman. And to your point, all the more reason why carlino should have played like a point and not had the green light to jack whenever. Distribute to your senior players who in this case just happen to have a great game- Davies and Hartsock. How many of us and sport casters and anyone else who watched say get it inside to the big guys. inside-out approach. But inside first not as an afterthought!!

dmcougar wrote:
The point is that I can remember when Jimmer had to hold back and it was clear he was frustrated not getting the ball. He had to wait his turn. I did not see carlino with much of a bridle. Rose would yank him and late n the year just not play him as much. But Carlino is like a willful horse that does not want constraints or has too short of a memory to remember that he just can't jack up 3's without regard to what is happening in the game.

I like this kid. I like his energy and finesse. And yes he is a freshman. And to your point, all the more reason why carlino should have played like a point and not had the green light to jack whenever. Distribute to your senior players who in this case just happen to have a great game- Davies and Hartsock. How many of us and sport casters and anyone else who watched say get it inside to the big guys. inside-out approach. But inside first not as an afterthought!!

Don't you see, it doesn't matter how Carlino compares to Jimmer. Carlino will not, cannot, should not ever be Jimmer. Carlino shows flashes of brilliance. However, he's young. He might develop into a great player or he might not. He might simply be a role player on a team where others are the stars. Comparing him to Jimmer is unfair. In my entire life, BYU has only fielded one other guard that compares to Jimmer. However, they have had several above average to excellent guards. Carlino looks to have the skills to develop into an above average to excellent guard. There is an outside chance that he will develop into a dominant guard. I'm not planning on it. When you are talking about dominant guards, BYU has only had 2, Ainge and Jimmer. When you look at them, they aren't alot alike other than they both scored alot of points. Ainge is Ainge and Jimmer is Jimmer. Carlino, if he does become a dominant guard, will be Carlino. He has to find his own game. If he tries to play Jimmer's game or Ainge's game, he will never be dominant.

My two cents -



1. I don't have a big problem with the thread title. If it was "Carlino sucks," that's one thing. But Carlino did have a very poor showing in that two-game stretch.



2. I'm conflicted about Matt Carlino. You're being willfully ignorant if you think he was a season-long problem. He had some very good games and was a key part of some wins. On the other hand, as a lot of others have pointed out, his shortcomings seem to be mental/decision-making shortcomings. When a freshman has issues with physicality or adjusting to higher-level play, I don't worry as much - I have faith that they'll get those straightened out. I worry about Carlino's court-vision and ability to "grasp the moment" - those aren't always skills you can "develop."



3. We need to cool it with the "Jimmer's freshman year" comparisons. I've seen it a lot this season, and it's an exercise in pointlessness. Jimmer's development was an even-bigger anomaly than Jimmer himself was. Players develop at different paces, anyways - if Jimmer became Jimmer with unremarkable freshman numbers, shouldn't Tavernari have been the second coming of Reggie Miller by his senior season?



I suspect Carlino will become a good player with time. I hope - but don't necessarily expect - that he'll become an effective decision-maker in high-pressure moments. But I don't expect him to be Jimmer. And no player deserves the burden of those expectations.

rblack wrote:

The point is that I can remember when Jimmer had to hold back and it was clear he was frustrated not getting the ball. He had to wait his turn. I did not see carlino with much of a bridle. Rose would yank him and late n the year just not play him as much. But Carlino is like a willful horse that does not want constraints or has too short of a memory to remember that he just can't jack up 3's without regard to what is happening in the game.

I like this kid. I like his energy and finesse. And yes he is a freshman. And to your point, all the more reason why carlino should have played like a point and not had the green light to jack whenever. Distribute to your senior players who in this case just happen to have a great game- Davies and Hartsock. How many of us and sport casters and anyone else who watched say get it inside to the big guys. inside-out approach. But inside first not as an afterthought!!

Don't you see, it doesn't matter how Carlino compares to Jimmer. Carlino will not, cannot, should not ever be Jimmer. Carlino shows flashes of brilliance. However, he's young. He might develop into a great player or he might not. He might simply be a role player on a team where others are the stars. Comparing him to Jimmer is unfair. In my entire life, BYU has only fielded one other guard that compares to Jimmer. However, they have had several above average to excellent guards. Carlino looks to have the skills to develop into an above average to excellent guard. There is an outside chance that he will develop into a dominant guard. I'm not planning on it. When you are talking about dominant guards, BYU has only had 2, Ainge and Jimmer. When you look at them, they aren't alot alike other than they both scored alot of points. Ainge is Ainge and Jimmer is Jimmer. Carlino, if he does become a dominant guard, will be Carlino. He has to find his own game. If he tries to play Jimmer's game or Ainge's game, he will never be dominant.

Obfuscation. This isnt even about Jimmer, really. It's about another freshman who was put into the spotlight and struggled down the stretch. My question was he given too much rope and hung himself with it. Compare him to any solid to great byu player. It's not about Jimmer.

dmcougar wrote:

Carlino will leave byu as one of the best byu point guards byu has ever had. he is very young and has a lot to learn. he has the skills though and once he learns what he needs to learn he will be great.



i expect his junior and senior year to be phenomenal.



People need to relax.

Actually, Matt has some striking similarities to Jake Heaps. I know, apples to oranges, but Matt has streaks of brilliance mixed with a lot of mental errors, turnovers, and offense stifling play. Cusick by contrast, helped facilitate offense--like Riley N. Matt has a tendency to be selfish and create for himself not necessarily others.

Rose seemed to keep Jimmer in check his freshman year. I'm not sure he was able to keep Matt in check. Matt's best game was his first. His worst were the last several games. What trend does that sound like?

I think Matt will turn it around. And I don't think the hoops team is as prone to anti-non-returned missionary-isms as the football team is.

The assists leader on the team that played 10 games less than everyone else is actually a ball hog?



Ooooooookay........ :roll:

Dcr36 wrote:
My two cents -



1. I don't have a big problem with the thread title. If it was "Carlino sucks," that's one thing. But Carlino did have a very poor showing in that two-game stretch.

It was "Carlino Sucks". He changed it about 4 pages into it.



(AJP and DM watch 3 games, and suddenly they are an expert on someone's play the whole season. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit saying they watched 3 games... Maybe 3 games between the two of them)

I am curious to see what Carlino's stats are like compared to other freshman PG's, especially from the WCC. Overall stats, and maybe stats against the top 4 in conference.



I think Carlino had a serviceable year, but there's no question to me that his performance at the end of the year was subpar. Maybe he hit a wall there and ran out of juice. Maybe he was playing better guards later than early, but anyone who thinks that Carlino's performance in the last 4 or 5 games was good enough was seeing something different than I was.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

My two cents -



1. I don't have a big problem with the thread title. If it was "Carlino sucks," that's one thing. But Carlino did have a very poor showing in that two-game stretch.

It was "Carlino Sucks". He changed it about 4 pages into it.



(AJP and DM watch 3 games, and suddenly they are an expert on someone's play the whole season. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit saying they watched 3 games... Maybe 3 games between the two of them)

I guess I missed that. Huh.



I think the thread needed to be titled "Carlino an embarrassment" to complete the trifecta. ;)

Rose really didn't have much of choice, especially once Rogers got injured.



With Rogers injury, Zylstra had to drop down to the 3, leaving the 2 for Winder and sometimes Cusick and even more rarely Harrison (we've beaten that horse).



At PG, Rose's only real options were Cusick and Carlino. Hindsight is always 20/20 and as stated, Carlino did have some good/great games. He single handily beat USF. So, moving Winder back to PG probably didn't really cross Rose's mind, especially since at about the same time Winder was stepping it up at the 2.



Next season will be interesting, though, I suspect we'll see Carlino and Cusick split time at PG. What I hope we don't ever see unless the foul situation necessitates it is Cusick and Carlino on the court at the same time.



Honestly, I think Rose's biggest mistake towards the end of the season and certainly against GU, Iona and Marquette was starting Zylstra back at the 2. Team and offense flowed better with Winder at the 2.

hawkwing wrote:
I am curious to see what Carlino's stats are like compared to other freshman PG's, especially from the WCC. Overall stats, and maybe stats against the top 4 in conference.



I think Carlino had a serviceable year, but there's no question to me that his performance at the end of the year was subpar. Maybe he hit a wall there and ran out of juice. Maybe he was playing better guards later than early, but anyone who thinks that Carlino's performance in the last 4 or 5 games was good enough was seeing something different than I was.

You asked, I did ya one better :)



I got Carlino's stats compared with all the STARTING pg's in the WCC (because I don't want to run into the "he's a starter at BYU, I expect starting contributions, etc etc).



You might all be surprised. He has a better statline than a certain WCC freshman of the year.



Numbers calculated per 40 mins. In fact, let's do it blind... Which one was Carlino? Which one was Pangos? Dellavadova?



A) 45% FG 36% 3pt 85% FT 3.5 rpg 6.7 apg 3 topg .9 spg 16.6 ppg

B) 43% FG 40% 3pt 85% FT 3.0 rpg 3.9 apg 2.5 topg 1.4 spg 16.8 ppg

C) 41% FG 35% 3pt 75% FT 4.1 rpg 6.0 apg 3.5 topg 1.8 spg 16.8 ppg

You left off Carlino's biggest drawback... turnovers. Add that in and I'll guess.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

I am curious to see what Carlino's stats are like compared to other freshman PG's, especially from the WCC. Overall stats, and maybe stats against the top 4 in conference.



I think Carlino had a serviceable year, but there's no question to me that his performance at the end of the year was subpar. Maybe he hit a wall there and ran out of juice. Maybe he was playing better guards later than early, but anyone who thinks that Carlino's performance in the last 4 or 5 games was good enough was seeing something different than I was.

You asked, I did ya one better :)



I got Carlino's stats compared with all the STARTING pg's in the WCC (because I don't want to run into the "he's a starter at BYU, I expect starting contributions, etc etc).



You might all be surprised. He has a better statline than a certain WCC freshman of the year.



Numbers calculated per 40 mins. In fact, let's do it blind... Which one was Carlino? Which one was Pangos? Dellavadova?



A) 45% FG 36% 3pt 85% FT 3.5 rpg 6.7 apg .9 spg 16.6 ppg

B) 43% FG 40% 3pt 85% FT 3.0 rpg 3.9 apg 1.4 spg 16.8 ppg

C) 41% FG 35% 3pt 75% FT 4.1 rpg 6.0 apg 1.8 spg 16.8 ppg

If "C"'s FT % was where it shoulod have been, he would have had a clear edge in the PPG race C has to be Carlino.... (I'm guessing without looking so if I'm wrong I reserve the right to go back and change this...)

hawkwing wrote:

You left off Carlino's biggest drawback... turnovers. Add that in and I'll guess.

I would but Dellavadova didn't have TO's on his stat sheet, so I ommited that number.

EDIT: After some additional digging, I found those numbers, and edited the post to reflect. Going to start a poll in another thread.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

My two cents -



1. I don't have a big problem with the thread title. If it was "Carlino sucks," that's one thing. But Carlino did have a very poor showing in that two-game stretch.

It was "Carlino Sucks". He changed it about 4 pages into it.



(AJP and DM watch 3 games, and suddenly they are an expert on someone's play the whole season. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit saying they watched 3 games... Maybe 3 games between the two of them)

Seriously Blue? It's not okay to say (in a blowing-off-steam post) that Carlino really sucked it up, but it's okay to say I basically don't know what the heck I'm talking about? I watched almost every single basketball game this season. And I said that I didn't think Carlino was a bad player but that he had horrible games (I don't see how you can disagree with this). And I changed the thread title to reflect this I understand that it'd been a while since the thread was started, but I was away from the board and didn't look back to see what I should've known was going to happen (people would overreact and make me out to be a jerk, though I didn't expect I would get accused of not even watching games). But apparently I just shouldn't bother, you must know what I was trying to say better than even I do.

beauso79 wrote:
He's a freshman for pete's sake

This



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">