This BYU team is not an NCAA tourney team

byufan4ever wrote:
Most over used phrase on CC: "so and so are not D-1 athletes!" And it has to be said/read in a whiny little voice.

This



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tmoney35 wrote:

northerncougar wrote:
Anyone still want to argue that this is a tourney team?

I do.



This is a tourney quality team.

I'd like to here your argument

I do too. I don't think that they are anything more than a super high seed and a 1st round exit, but I think that yes they are a tourney caliber team.



In my opinion all they are is a decent low post player away from being a really good team. They do not have that in Brandon Davies. He has not been the same player that he was his junior year. I actually wish that he hadn't come back now that I see the senior version of himself. I expected him to be much, much more dominant this year, but he has taken a step back. He fouls out of big games, and beats up on really bad teams with no height to inflate stats.



The funny thing is that teams without height are getting to him now. All you need is a forearm shiver to his back and it will throw off his entire night. Dude is simply not physical.



I will put it like this: We are one Eric Mika and one less Zylstra and Cusick away from not only being a tourney caliber team, but going deep.



When/IF Delgado and Winder start playing serious minutes, and Davies can pull his head out, we will be legit contenders. Zylstra and Cusick aren't the answer, and Davies has potential to be but isn't.

byufan4ever wrote:
Most over used phrase on CC: "so and so are not D-1 athletes!" And it has to be said/read in a whiny little voice.

I agree

I'm with BlueIs. All our current players are the problem. Our answers are really - like always - staring our coaches in the face while they wallow in ignominy on the bench.



Free Ambrosino!

Free Delgado!

Free Calvert!

Free Winder!



Oh, and I hate seniors who average more points and rebounds and assists and fewer fouls and turnovers than they did as juniors.

What shall we call them then? The "walk-ons"? I mean Cusick will never receive a scholarship and yet receives big minutes in important games. I'm not saying Ambrosino is the answer either but why not let him play when he drops a 3 and Zylstra is laying bricks and playing piss-poor defense. I think you can quote craigocarson on the the non-D1 athlete stuff as well. There's still hope we can make the NCAA tourney but we better start to develop some of the future talent we have now instead of continuing to hope others find something they never had.



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SpiffCoug wrote:
I'm with BlueIs. All our current players are the problem. Our answers are really - like always - staring our coaches in the face while they wallow in ignominy on the bench.



Free Ambrosino!

Free Delgado!

Free Calvert!

Free Winder!



Oh, and I hate seniors who average more points and rebounds and assists and fewer fouls and turnovers than they did as juniors.

Sigh. I wonder if you will ever get tired of posting this.



Let's examine the evidence:



- Last year, BD was the 2nd scoring option behind Hartsock (second gameplanned against, etc).

- This year they have played easier competition (last years RPI 27, this years 47).



2012 numbers / 2013 numbers



FG % 51 Vs 53 (+2)

FT % 66 Vs 65 (-1)

RPG 7.7 VS 7.8 (A POINT ONE IMPROVEMENT! Major improvement there, glad you pointed it out.)

APG 2.1 VS 2.3 (.2 difference. Really improved in assists too. Way to point that out)

Fouls, he is down from 2.68 average (was 2.8 last year)



And last, but certainly least, 18 PPG (15 ppg last year).





The transition to being "Brandon's team" has been a failure. If he had markedly improved, then we would be better than we are this year. But he hasn't. He is the same player, but now he is the #1 focus of the defense instead of being an afterthought. This coming from someone that has seen EVERY game that they have played this year. He doesn't battle down low in the offensive post. doesn't assert himself, and doesn't even look interested in having the ball late in game. If it weren't for Haws Zylstra and Carlino we wouldn't have anyone shoot the ball in the last 5 minutes of the game.

Regardless of the talent we do or do not have, who thinks our resume is good enough for an invite?



Up until last night, our only saving grace was no bad losses, which is something very few, if any, bubbles teams could say. Now that's gone and we still have no good wins, something many bubbles team do have.



Seems the only shot at an at-large bid now is to win out and make it to the WCC championship game. I'm thinking we could probably get a "first four" game with that.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

I'm with BlueIs. All our current players are the problem. Our answers are really - like always - staring our coaches in the face while they wallow in ignominy on the bench.



Free Ambrosino!

Free Delgado!

Free Calvert!

Free Winder!



Oh, and I hate seniors who average more points and rebounds and assists and fewer fouls and turnovers than they did as juniors.

Sigh. I wonder if you will ever get tired of posting this.



Let's examine the evidence:



- Last year, BD was the 2nd scoring option behind Hartsock (second gameplanned against, etc).

- This year they have played easier competition (last years RPI 27, this years 47).



2012 numbers / 2013 numbers



FG % 51 Vs 53 (+2)

FT % 66 Vs 65 (-1)

RPG 7.7 VS 7.8 (A POINT ONE IMPROVEMENT! Major improvement there, glad you pointed it out.)

APG 2.1 VS 2.3 (.2 difference. Really improved in assists too. Way to point that out)

Fouls, he is down from 2.68 average (was 2.8 last year)



And last, but certainly least, 18 PPG (15 ppg last year).





The transition to being "Brandon's team" has been a failure. If he had markedly improved, then we would be better than we are this year. But he hasn't. He is the same player, but now he is the #1 focus of the defense instead of being an afterthought. This coming from someone that has seen EVERY game that they have played this year. He doesn't battle down low in the offensive post. doesn't assert himself, and doesn't even look interested in having the ball late in game. If it weren't for Haws Zylstra and Carlino we wouldn't have anyone shoot the ball in the last 5 minutes of the game.

What I get tired of is many fans feeling we have answers just wasting away on the bench that the coaches refuse to play.



I don't recall too much discussion before the season that this was going to be Brandon's team. But yeah, our seniors haven't played to a level of previous senior classes. But then, last year's senior class didn't really step up either. Really, the ONLY senior class that has stepped up in the last half century at BYU was probably Jimmer and Jacksons.

northerncougar wrote:

northerncougar wrote:
Anyone still want to argue that this is a tourney team?

I do.



This is a tourney quality team.

No, it's not.



Haws is great, but even his FT's have been lacking lately. Davies is soft and doesn't have the presence in the middle on offense we need from him, and the other bigs are a step down from him. Carlino is either great or awful, sometimes in the same game. The rest of the team is okay at best. We have one guy we can count on.



This is not a quality tournament team. We lack consistency as Schmoe said. We also lack talent.

You just described 95% of the teams that will be in the tournament. Do I think this is a final 4 team? no. But would they compete in the tourney along with the rest of the 12-16 seeds? yes.



Learn to enjoy this team for what it is. It's been another good year, and we won the most important game of the year, utah! right? (I hate the utah = most important game of the year notion BTW)

BlueIsBetter wrote:

BroncoBot wrote:

Anyone still want to argue that this is a tourney team?

I do.



This is a tourney quality team.

I'd like to here your argument

I do too. I don't think that they are anything more than a super high seed and a 1st round exit, but I think that yes they are a tourney caliber team.



In my opinion all they are is a decent low post player away from being a really good team. They do not have that in Brandon Davies. He has not been the same player that he was his junior year. I actually wish that he hadn't come back now that I see the senior version of himself. I expected him to be much, much more dominant this year, but he has taken a step back. He fouls out of big games, and beats up on really bad teams with no height to inflate stats.



The funny thing is that teams without height are getting to him now. All you need is a forearm shiver to his back and it will throw off his entire night. Dude is simply not physical.



I will put it like this: We are one Eric Mika and one less Zylstra and Cusick away from not only being a tourney caliber team, but going deep.



When/IF Delgado and Winder start playing serious minutes, and Davies can pull his head out, we will be legit contenders. Zylstra and Cusick aren't the answer, and Davies has potential to be but isn't.

Ok. You wish Davies did not come back this year. Who should have gotten his minutes. Don't pick Mika. He is still in high school. Pick someone who is actually on the team now. And do nit assume that an NBA caliber JC big man could have been grabbed unkess you can name one that BYU could have grabbed.



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We ought to just consider it a miracle this thread even has a right to exist. This team has no business being a part of March but there is a small chance the boys knock off St. Mary's and Gonzaga at some point before the seeding takes place.

Rose is failing to make adjustments on D' tonight so far......Winder on the bench all night doesn't help. We're going to lose to SF at home. That's unacceptable.....Teams around the league are getting better while we are getting worse. Then Zylstra chokes twice at the end of the game when it matters most. Make that 3 times......who passes on a 3 and dribbles into the key and bricks a floater when we are down 11. Our Man D' has to improve



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We got smoked at home by a city school. This is pure embarrassment. Worst half of bball I have seen us play in the Dave Rose era. I mean our team kind of sucks anyway, but this is other worldly bad play.

Tonight I'm counting my lucky stars that we aren't in the MWC this year. That would REALLY be embarassing.



After that Delavedoucha buzzer beater, this team lost all i's fight and heart. Here's hoping for the CBI.

NIT or bust.....Our man defense sucks and our 3-point shooting has been horrific this year



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It was plenty enough embarrassing tonight. 60 points in 2nd half? Yeah we have D1 ball players but so does Idaho State. Hopefully Coach Rose can salvage something out of this season. It will be interesting to see the character of this team as the season winds down.

BroncoBot wrote:

BroncoBot wrote:

Anyone still want to argue that this is a tourney team?

I do.



This is a tourney quality team.

No, it's not.



Haws is great, but even his FT's have been lacking lately. Davies is soft and doesn't have the presence in the middle on offense we need from him, and the other bigs are a step down from him. Carlino is either great or awful, sometimes in the same game. The rest of the team is okay at best. We have one guy we can count on.



This is not a quality tournament team. We lack consistency as Schmoe said. We also lack talent.

You just described 95% of the teams that will be in the tournament. Do I think this is a final 4 team? no. But would they compete in the tourney along with the rest of the 12-16 seeds? yes.



Learn to enjoy this team for what it is. It's been another good year, and we won the most important game of the year, utah! right? (I hate the utah = most important game of the year notion BTW)

Care to revise your position?



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beauso79 wrote:
NIT or bust.....Our man defense sucks and our 3-point shooting has been horrific this year



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Actually BYU was in zone the entire second half. BYU's defense sucks, man or zone. Winder, Cusick, Carlino, Zylstra, Davies, Sharp etc. They all acted like they were playing 5th grade ball where the entire team follows the ball around.

Let's not forget that we got outrebounded again, have limited options on offense and struggle mightily to defend the permiter for three point shooting. This team is worse than last year and continues to regress...losses to Gonzaga, St. Mary's understandable...but losses to USD (away) and USF (home) unacceptable. This team is weak mentally and struggles against adversity...have no heart.

beauso79 wrote:
Rose is failing to make adjustments on D' tonight so far......Winder on the bench all night doesn't help. We're going to lose to SF at home. That's unacceptable.....Teams around the league are getting better while we are getting worse. Then Zylstra chokes twice at the end of the game when it matters most. Make that 3 times......who passes on a 3 and dribbles into the key and bricks a floater when we are down 11. Our Man D' has to improve



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USF's biggest run came with Winder on the floor. I'm sorry, but he's not the huge defensive stopper you all make him out to be.