This Team Is Better Than Expected

The first big test of the year is against ISU. I will go "all in on the 25 wins" if Byu can beat ISU. ISU already beat a top 25 team, they are proven. The jury IMO is out on Stanford and how good they are.

The last 2 games mean nothing, they were gimmies. Iowa State is the measuring stick game!

*edited..thanks Wolverine!

stgeorgefan wrote:
The first big test of the year is against ISU. I will go "all in on the 25 wins" if Byu can beat ISU. ISU already beat a top 25 team, they are proven. Stanford lost to a so so Northwestern team after BYU beat them. The jury is out on Stanford and how good they are.

The last 2 games mean nothing, they were gimmies. Iowa State is the measuring stick game!

Not quite accurate. Stanford, since losing to BYU, beat Northwestern 71-58 at home and beat Denver 66-57 on the road. Regardless, the next 4 game stretch will tell volumes about this BYU team. I for one hope it is all good.

Stanford has only lost to BYU. Beat Houston and gave them their first loss tonight.



Iowa State remains undefeated. We nearly beat them. This is our only loss.



Witchita State will be interesting. They are ranked right there with Gonzaga. Nice measuring stick and preparation opportunity. I am not ready to predict a win vs a legit Top 15 opponent. But I maintain a slim hope. But - sheesh - if we lose to a ranked team on essentially a home game for them - can we try to contain our whining?



We had 5 players in double figures again. Haws and Carlino both over 20. We have more weapons than we have had for a few years.



Anybody else willing to sign up for the Church of the 25+ Win Dance Season?

Cougarbib wrote:
Stanford has only lost to BYU. Beat Houston and gave them their first loss tonight.



Iowa State remains undefeated. We nearly beat them. This is our only loss.



Witchita State will be interesting. They are ranked right there with Gonzaga. Nice measuring stick and preparation opportunity. I am not ready to predict a win vs a legit Top 15 opponent. But I maintain a slim hope. But - sheesh - if we lose to a ranked team on essentially a home game for them - can we try to contain our whining?



We had 5 players in double figures again. Haws and Carlino both over 20. We have more weapons than we have had for a few years.



Anybody else willing to sign up for the Church of the 25+ Win Dance Season?

We're not going to make it to 25 regular season wins. We're a good team, but we're missing some pieces and we're relying on a ton of youth. Fortunately, our RPI is really good so our dance ticket is still possible.

craigoscarson wrote:

Stanford has only lost to BYU. Beat Houston and gave them their first loss tonight.



Iowa State remains undefeated. We nearly beat them. This is our only loss.



Witchita State will be interesting. They are ranked right there with Gonzaga. Nice measuring stick and preparation opportunity. I am not ready to predict a win vs a legit Top 15 opponent. But I maintain a slim hope. But - sheesh - if we lose to a ranked team on essentially a home game for them - can we try to contain our whining?



We had 5 players in double figures again. Haws and Carlino both over 20. We have more weapons than we have had for a few years.



Anybody else willing to sign up for the Church of the 25+ Win Dance Season?

We're not going to make it to 25 regular season wins. We're a good team, but we're missing some pieces and we're relying on a ton of youth. Fortunately, our RPI is really good so our dance ticket is still possible.

Church Doctrine specifically includes WCC Tournament games in the 25 wins. Are you still out or does that clarification reel you in?



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Cougarbib wrote:

Cougarbib wrote:
Stanford has only lost to BYU. Beat Houston and gave them their first loss tonight.



Iowa State remains undefeated. We nearly beat them. This is our only loss.



Witchita State will be interesting. They are ranked right there with Gonzaga. Nice measuring stick and preparation opportunity. I am not ready to predict a win vs a legit Top 15 opponent. But I maintain a slim hope. But - sheesh - if we lose to a ranked team on essentially a home game for them - can we try to contain our whining?



We had 5 players in double figures again. Haws and Carlino both over 20. We have more weapons than we have had for a few years.



Anybody else willing to sign up for the Church of the 25+ Win Dance Season?

We're not going to make it to 25 regular season wins. We're a good team, but we're missing some pieces and we're relying on a ton of youth. Fortunately, our RPI is really good so our dance ticket is still possible.

Church Doctrine specifically includes WCC Tournament games in the 25 wins. Are you still out or does that clarification reel you in?



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I think I'm still out, but by a razor thin margin.

This team seems just good enough to lose to good teams. Like Craig said, we are missing pieces that need to be in place to beat top 25 teams, especially on thier home(neutral) floors.

We need a power forward who has some power. I know that Kaufusi isn't going to score on anyone, but it might help to have those extra fouls per game that Mika right now has to play around. Our big man depth, since all they do is foul on D, kinda sucks.



Remind me, how was Bronson's rebounding?

We need consistency and some level headness.



Carlino jacks things up too early and forces when he should pass.



KC is guilty of forcing things as well.



Haws disappears for large stretches and tries to do too much in traffic too.



These are things that can all be fixed with better decision making.



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mizzoucoug wrote:
We need a power forward who has some power. I know that Kaufusi isn't going to score on anyone, but it might help to have those extra fouls per game that Mika right now has to play around. Our big man depth, since all they do is foul on D, kinda sucks.



Remind me, how was Bronson's rebounding?

you are right. We need another big body, especially for conference play. BK didnt kill it on rebounds. Iirc, something like 2 RPGs, but per minutes played, not horrible. Bt he takes up space and relieves some pressure from off our 5 man.

Gunk wrote:
We need consistency and some level headness.



Carlino jacks things up too early and forces when he should pass.



KC is guilty of forcing things as well.



Haws disappears for large stretches and tries to do too much in traffic too.



These are things that can all be fixed with better decision making.



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I hope these things can be fixed. This many games into the season should have made some distinct progress. I get youngins still making some mistakes, but when the leaders keep doing stupid selfish stuff, it makes me wonder. If MC could keep driving and drawing the D and dump it to Austin for a midrange baseline jumper, among other options, as he has done in some games, BYU would have better results.

At one level MC has to keep shooting and not give up, but anytime I see him shoot a 3 off the dribble on a fast break, I get a sick feeling that turns to anger and disgust. At least last year he was off and on. This year he has gotten worse after a few early games of good shooting. He is crazy making. So valuable to this team and can stink it up worse than anyone bc expectations are so high, as they should be.

Cougs_Rule wrote:

We need consistency and some level headness.



Carlino jacks things up too early and forces when he should pass.



KC is guilty of forcing things as well.



Haws disappears for large stretches and tries to do too much in traffic too.



These are things that can all be fixed with better decision making.



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I hope these things can be fixed. This many games into the season should have made some distinct progress. I get youngins still making some mistakes, but when the leaders keep doing stupid selfish stuff, it makes me wonder. If MC could keep driving and drawing the D and dump it to Austin for a midrange baseline jumper, among other options, as he has done in some games, BYU would have better results.

At one level MC has to keep shooting and not give up, but anytime I see him shoot a 3 off the dribble on a fast break, I get a sick feeling that turns to anger and disgust. At least last year he was off and on. This year he has gotten worse after a few early games of good shooting. He is crazy making. So valuable to this team and can stink it up worse than anyone bc expectations are so high, as they should be.

True, but it's just not MC. I get you aren't the biggest fan of the guy but skipping over Haws who disappears for entire halves and KC who is just as guilty of taking head scratchers as MC is unfair. Why are expectations so high for MC but not the others where their inconsistencies are excuseable?



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You're right. I guess disappearing seemed better than conspicuously chucking or carelessly turning over (KC). Maybe almost 10 turnovers keeps sticking in my head. MC did ALOT of other good things that game....it was the almost quadruple double that captures the head scratching nature of that guy.

Gunk wrote:

Gunk wrote:
We need consistency and some level headness.



Carlino jacks things up too early and forces when he should pass.



KC is guilty of forcing things as well.



Haws disappears for large stretches and tries to do too much in traffic too.



These are things that can all be fixed with better decision making.



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I hope these things can be fixed. This many games into the season should have made some distinct progress. I get youngins still making some mistakes, but when the leaders keep doing stupid selfish stuff, it makes me wonder. If MC could keep driving and drawing the D and dump it to Austin for a midrange baseline jumper, among other options, as he has done in some games, BYU would have better results.

At one level MC has to keep shooting and not give up, but anytime I see him shoot a 3 off the dribble on a fast break, I get a sick feeling that turns to anger and disgust. At least last year he was off and on. This year he has gotten worse after a few early games of good shooting. He is crazy making. So valuable to this team and can stink it up worse than anyone bc expectations are so high, as they should be.

True, but it's just not MC. I get you aren't the biggest fan of the guy but skipping over Haws who disappears for entire halves and KC who is just as guilty of taking head scratchers as MC is unfair. Why are expectations so high for MC but not the others where their inconsistencies are excuseable?



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Exactly. Any outside observer would tell you "If it wasn't for that Carlino guy, you guys would have lost the game/ lost by a lot more..."



If you don't like turnovers, then BYU basketball isn't for you. They press the ball, and Rose wants it more and more uptempo every time they play. Carlino is a young Steve Nash. There are maybe 30 out of 300 basketball schools that wouldn't trade Carlino for their point guard. The Carlino nonsense has got to stop. We are lucky to have him. Very lucky.

Blue



There are turnovers and there are stupid turnovers

There are shots and there are stupid shots



I don't see people calling for MC's schollie or for him to to quit being agressive. Just needs to realize Jummer range is deeper than his range. Dribbling into double or triple coverage - get it to someone else.



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craigoscarson wrote:

craigoscarson wrote:

Stanford has only lost to BYU. Beat Houston and gave them their first loss tonight.



Iowa State remains undefeated. We nearly beat them. This is our only loss.



Witchita State will be interesting. They are ranked right there with Gonzaga. Nice measuring stick and preparation opportunity. I am not ready to predict a win vs a legit Top 15 opponent. But I maintain a slim hope. But - sheesh - if we lose to a ranked team on essentially a home game for them - can we try to contain our whining?



We had 5 players in double figures again. Haws and Carlino both over 20. We have more weapons than we have had for a few years.



Anybody else willing to sign up for the Church of the 25+ Win Dance Season?

We're not going to make it to 25 regular season wins. We're a good team, but we're missing some pieces and we're relying on a ton of youth. Fortunately, our RPI is really good so our dance ticket is still possible.

Church Doctrine specifically includes WCC Tournament games in the 25 wins. Are you still out or does that clarification reel you in?



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I think I'm still out, but by a razor thin margin.

25 is a pipe dream unless we do something miraculous



note: Without KC.. miraculous would be an understatement in the dance

craigoscarson wrote:

Stanford has only lost to BYU. Beat Houston and gave them their first loss tonight.



Iowa State remains undefeated. We nearly beat them. This is our only loss.



Witchita State will be interesting. They are ranked right there with Gonzaga. Nice measuring stick and preparation opportunity. I am not ready to predict a win vs a legit Top 15 opponent. But I maintain a slim hope. But - sheesh - if we lose to a ranked team on essentially a home game for them - can we try to contain our whining?



We had 5 players in double figures again. Haws and Carlino both over 20. We have more weapons than we have had for a few years.



Anybody else willing to sign up for the Church of the 25+ Win Dance Season?

We're not going to make it to 25 regular season wins. We're a good team, but we're missing some pieces and we're relying on a ton of youth. Fortunately, our RPI is really good so our dance ticket is still possible.

I thought I was being a little pessimistic... guess not

craigoscarson wrote:

Cougarbib wrote:
Stanford has only lost to BYU. Beat Houston and gave them their first loss tonight.



Iowa State remains undefeated. We nearly beat them. This is our only loss.



Witchita State will be interesting. They are ranked right there with Gonzaga. Nice measuring stick and preparation opportunity. I am not ready to predict a win vs a legit Top 15 opponent. But I maintain a slim hope. But - sheesh - if we lose to a ranked team on essentially a home game for them - can we try to contain our whining?



We had 5 players in double figures again. Haws and Carlino both over 20. We have more weapons than we have had for a few years.



Anybody else willing to sign up for the Church of the 25+ Win Dance Season?

We're not going to make it to 25 regular season wins. We're a good team, but we're missing some pieces and we're relying on a ton of youth. Fortunately, our RPI is really good so our dance ticket is still possible.

I thought I was being a little pessimistic... guess not

If we get into the NIT, we get bounced in the first game.

This team *is* better than expected, Rose just doesn't have them playing the right lineup. For the 3rd year in a row, his rotations are suspect. I wonder if there was more to the "Dave Rice does a lot of game management as the assistant" crowd than I originally realized.



PG - Carlino

SG - Halford

SF - Haws

PF - Kcoll

C - Mika



This would allow the team to play man defense. Haws can guard a SF much better than a 2 guard, Carlino and Halford are our best man defenders hands down. This would allow Austin to come in as the 6th man for Kcoll and Mika, whichever one needed a breather or was in foul trouble. There is no question that the game changes pace when Carlino comes in. The team is normally in a defecit when he comes in, and the offense is normally pretty stagnant.



There should be no other starting lineup. Kcoll sucks as a starting point guard. He is good off of the ball, cutting to the basket, and slashing against bigger players that aren't as quick. Its okay to get Kcoll in foul trouble, because we don't want him in at the end of close games anyways, with his beyond bad FT shooting, and we certainly don't want him handling the ball against the press. He doesn't average more than one or two fouls a game, because he plays an "Ole" defense at point guard, letting his guy go right by him with him 2 steps behind.



I think that Rose is so in love with the "mismatch" element of the game that he does stupid stuff like playing Zylstra (a small forward) and Kcoll at point. Two guys whose ballhandling is just barely sufficient enough to get the ball up the court not under pressure (neither can/could break the press). Neither have great court vision. Kcoll can barely make bounce passes to his target half the time. He should be slated at 3, and shouldn't sniff the pg position except for maybe taking over for Carlino. He never posts on offense against a smaller PG, which is what you would think that he is playing that position for. He never backs down a pg. Instead, tries to take a (normally) much faster and smaller player off the dribble to the basket, resulting in any combination of turnover by steal/bad pass for turnover/bad shot, etc. Rose has the wrong lineup and is costing us games, for the 3rd year in a row. I'm severely disappointed. I thought he was a better coach than this.

Rose has goofed once again on his rotation. Cost us last season and cost us this season.



KC has no business at the point. He even scores more when MC is in.



Haws can't defend if his life was dependent on it.



Agree with Blue's lineup, but I would put Winder in ahead of Halford.



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