FT's and rebounding

Cougarbib wrote:
We are not the best team in the WCC. No true PG. Weak at the 4. No depth at center. Too many poor shooters and poor free throw shooters. Mediocre rebounding. Mediocre shot blocking. Relatively young.



Gonzaga is not the beast they normally are. They did beat LMU and Pepperdine on the road. We did not. We play them in 20 minutes.



Portland giving BSU a run was no more of a fluke than BYU giving Oregon a run.



We are a pretty good team and fun to watch. Just not up to the upgraded OOC and WCC schedule.



We have some home games coming up. That will help.



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I disagree. I believe we do have the best team, talent wise, in the league. TH is hands down the best player and its not even close. Mika is a top three or four Center. MC is top 2 PG in the league. And KC is a top 5 or 6 player in the league. What other team has that kind of talent? Not even Gonzaga. They have Bell Jr, Pangos, and Dower. Our team is just not playing like a team anymore. My thought is drop SH from starting. He had one game, he did the job and got MC out of his funk. Now its time to go back to the best lineup. Also, please stop having the bigs be the open player on the penetrations!!!!!!! The open player should be a shooter. That is how that works. But not for BYU right now. We drive and the kickout goes to Austin or Sharp. WHY!!!! It should be TH or MC or SH. But no, we kick it to Nate or Josh. Lots of issues that shouldn't be in my opinion.

Sorry, but based on results it's pretty hard to claim that we have the best talent. We are poor defensively and it shows in how many players have career games against us.

imuakahuku wrote:

We are not the best team in the WCC. No true PG. Weak at the 4. No depth at center. Too many poor shooters and poor free throw shooters. Mediocre rebounding. Mediocre shot blocking. Relatively young.



Gonzaga is not the beast they normally are. They did beat LMU and Pepperdine on the road. We did not. We play them in 20 minutes.



Portland giving BSU a run was no more of a fluke than BYU giving Oregon a run.



We are a pretty good team and fun to watch. Just not up to the upgraded OOC and WCC schedule.



We have some home games coming up. That will help.



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I disagree. I believe we do have the best team, talent wise, in the league. TH is hands down the best player and its not even close. Mika is a top three or four Center. MC is top 2 PG in the league. And KC is a top 5 or 6 player in the league. What other team has that kind of talent? Not even Gonzaga. They have Bell Jr, Pangos, and Dower. Our team is just not playing like a team anymore. My thought is drop SH from starting. He had one game, he did the job and got MC out of his funk. Now its time to go back to the best lineup. Also, please stop having the bigs be the open player on the penetrations!!!!!!! The open player should be a shooter. That is how that works. But not for BYU right now. We drive and the kickout goes to Austin or Sharp. WHY!!!! It should be TH or MC or SH. But no, we kick it to Nate or Josh. Lots of issues that shouldn't be in my opinion.

TH is the best offensive players in the league. His defense is mediocre on his best day. He is not a complete player. He is an outstanding offensive player.



MC may be the 2nd best point guard on the team - not in the league. He left UCLA when they told him he was not a point guard. He is streaky. Inconsistent. Hot and cold. He gets his minutes. Tonight he was cold. Even his free throw shooting is short of impressive. Decent enough.



KC is possibly the most versatile player in the conference. His FT shooting is atrocious. His outside shooting is ordinary.



Mika has potential but plays like a freshman and has lost confidence. Give him 4 years. I am sure he has upside. Tonight. Zags had the better bigman. Thursday Portland did.



We have 4 pretty strong players. Patchwork beyond that.



You seem to be predicting 2 1st team(Haws and Collinsworth) and 1 2nd team (Carlino) and Mika honorable mention or freshman of the year - all - conference player will be wearing BYU Blue. I do not think so. My prediction, Maybe 1 and 1. Maybe.



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This team is mentally weak on the road and is consistently inconsistent with perimeter defense, FT shooting and playing physical. Teams have figured out how to get them out of their game and exploit their weaknesses. Last year's team would likely beat this year's team as we have no real replacement for Davies at center.



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imuakahuku wrote:



I disagree. I believe we do have the best team, talent wise, in the league. TH is hands down the best player and its not even close. Mika is a top three or four Center. MC is top 2 PG in the league. And KC is a top 5 or 6 player in the league. What other team has that kind of talent? Not even Gonzaga. They have Bell Jr, Pangos, and Dower. Our team is just not playing like a team anymore. My thought is drop SH from starting. He had one game, he did the job and got MC out of his funk. Now its time to go back to the best lineup. Also, please stop having the bigs be the open player on the penetrations!!!!!!! The open player should be a shooter. That is how that works. But not for BYU right now. We drive and the kickout goes to Austin or Sharp. WHY!!!! It should be TH or MC or SH. But no, we kick it to Nate or Josh. Lots of issues that shouldn't be in my opinion.

You and I seem to be watching different BYU basketball teams.

Dave Rose used to teach defense. When he was first HC, his teams would routinely take the best offensive player on the other team out of the equasion and would win games that way. The last few years (really started with the Jimmer teams). BYU's defense has been terrible. This team is losing because it can't get stops, and when it does cause a missed shot, they don't get the rebound. It is too frustrating to watch. I am getting really burned out on watching this team piss away games it should be able to win if it could play any defense at all. Oh, and like the thread title says, hit a freaking free throw.

Proudly, I didn't watch a single second of this farce. Were there any surprises? I doubt it. This team is just bad (or good perhaps) enough to play everyone close and lose late. Until this team decides to make fundamentals a priority I can't give them my time--it's truly disgusting to watch D1 players miss free throws and get pushed under the basket and fall out of bounds on nearly every rebound attempt. This is a bad basketball team with good talent.

byucougar1 wrote:
This team is mentally weak on the road and is consistently inconsistent with perimeter defense, FT shooting and playing physical. Teams have figured out how to get them out of their game and exploit their weaknesses. Last year's team would likely beat this year's team as we have no real replacement for Davies at center.



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Except last year we had big issues outside of Davies and Haws. Carlino was the same. So, yeah, Haws, Carlino, and Davies gave us more than Haws, Carlino, and Mika. But beyond that we did not have much of anything. I am not sure anyone else from last year would even be getting playing time other than guys like Austin, Sharp and Winder who are still here. Ambrosino. Delgado. Cusick. And the other guy fans loved to hate. What was his name?



Last year, KC was on a mission. KC + Mika offset the loss of Davies. Haws is better. Carlino is usually better. Austin is better. The team last year had a easier schedule OOC as well as WCC.



It is funny that so many fans expect BY to waltz into The Zag Center and beat a team that is 78-2 in that building and that has not lost a single game there in 2014 and probably will not. It is a slightly down year for Zaga. But they are not a bad team. We will have our hands full when they come to our house.



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I think Haws is a big part of the teams problem right now. We rely on him too much, he doesn't play good defense, often has more TO's than assists, He whines too much, and forces things offensively when things aren't working. Last night KC had Pangos guarding him who he could taken to the hole with ease and we kept going back to Haws who was being double teamed and kept turning the ball over. Austin never shot the ball until the second half, he never shoots the ball period, and yet made some big mid-range jumpers with ease at the end of the second half......Bartley should have seen more minutes for Haws/Sharp when we needed defense to get us back in the game. Sharp was almost useless last night.......We need to get this team fixed defensively and if Haws needs to see less minutes so be it.

Cougarbib wrote:

Cougarbib wrote:
We are not the best team in the WCC. No true PG. Weak at the 4. No depth at center. Too many poor shooters and poor free throw shooters. Mediocre rebounding. Mediocre shot blocking. Relatively young.



Gonzaga is not the beast they normally are. They did beat LMU and Pepperdine on the road. We did not. We play them in 20 minutes.



Portland giving BSU a run was no more of a fluke than BYU giving Oregon a run.



We are a pretty good team and fun to watch. Just not up to the upgraded OOC and WCC schedule.



We have some home games coming up. That will help.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

I disagree. I believe we do have the best team, talent wise, in the league. TH is hands down the best player and its not even close. Mika is a top three or four Center. MC is top 2 PG in the league. And KC is a top 5 or 6 player in the league. What other team has that kind of talent? Not even Gonzaga. They have Bell Jr, Pangos, and Dower. Our team is just not playing like a team anymore. My thought is drop SH from starting. He had one game, he did the job and got MC out of his funk. Now its time to go back to the best lineup. Also, please stop having the bigs be the open player on the penetrations!!!!!!! The open player should be a shooter. That is how that works. But not for BYU right now. We drive and the kickout goes to Austin or Sharp. WHY!!!! It should be TH or MC or SH. But no, we kick it to Nate or Josh. Lots of issues that shouldn't be in my opinion.

TH is the best offensive players in the league. His defense is mediocre on his best day. He is not a complete player. He is an outstanding offensive player.



MC may be the 2nd best point guard on the team - not in the league. He left UCLA when they told him he was not a point guard. He is streaky. Inconsistent. Hot and cold. He gets his minutes. Tonight he was cold. Even his free throw shooting is short of impressive. Decent enough.



KC is possibly the most versatile player in the conference. His FT shooting is atrocious. His outside shooting is ordinary.



Mika has potential but plays like a freshman and has lost confidence. Give him 4 years. I am sure he has upside. Tonight. Zags had the better bigman. Thursday Portland did.



We have 4 pretty strong players. Patchwork beyond that.



You seem to be predicting 2 1st team(Haws and Collinsworth) and 1 2nd team (Carlino) and Mika honorable mention or freshman of the year - all - conference player will be wearing BYU Blue. I do not think so. My prediction, Maybe 1 and 1. Maybe.



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I am not predicting those results. If we were undefeated then I would say yes. But we are way underperforming. We are playing teams that are overperforming. We are making stupid mistakes and running plays that make no sense. And nobody has confidence in their shot anymore except Haws. Rose is partly to blame but I think it is because he just doesn't know what to do about it. To me the problem is there is no true leadership on the team. It is causing all kinds of breakdowns defensively and that translates itself to the offensive side. Talent means next to nothing if the team doesn't play well. And that is my point. We have more talent but they are not playing well and that is just frustrating.

Sounds like the same sad song certain fans play over and over on the football forum. Unfortunately the superior talent claims here are no more defensible than they are there. Recruiting class rankings just do not support it.



BY does have above average WCC talent. BY might even have top 2 or 3 WCC talent.The problem is this. Look at Las Vegas odds. They will show you that the expected point swing between home and road games between the same teams is huge. BY does not have experienced talent to consistently overcome that differential on the road. BYU opened WCC play with 6 of 9 games on the road.



You have already seen the difference in results with Pepperdine and LMU. Las Vegas knows the odds.



BYU is not good enough to beat Gonzaga on the road this year. If Mike sticks around and Haws and Carlino return as senior leaders with KC as a junior without rust and Austin continuing to improve - BYU will play better on the road. Unfortunately, Mika is probably gone in 2014.



Even if Mika stays - BYU probably will lose as many as they win if in road or neutral games vs the likes of Iowa State, Stanford, Utah, Oregon, Texas, U Mass, Wichita State, Gonzaga, and Saint Mary's.



In 2013, BYU wins 1 out of 3 or 4.



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Let's dissect the Gonzaga game. Our backcourt (Carlino and Halford) played terrible 4 points will not get it done. They couldn't hit the three which allowed Gonzaga to focus on the other two - KC and Haws. It is truly a challenge when you only have to worry about two players that can hurt the team.



Given the 3 OT loss vs Portland, it is understandable that their legs were tired and energy was not quite there in the second half. However, a common problem still is present with this team and that is the slow rotation and finding the open man on the perimeter. Gonzaga, and Pangos in particular, shot lights out in the second half and many of his shots were of the wide-open uncovered type. The WCC has great 3 point shooters, and generally good ball movement to find the open man. If the defensive energy isn't there, and mental lapses are present, BYU will get torched. They presently do not play a unified defense consistently. Haws is not a defensive player and that is a weakness on the team which leads to some match-up problems.



Hopefully, they can re-group at the MC as they have spent a great number of games on the road compared to home games. They will have 6 home and 3 away on the upcoming schedule. Perhaps they can get their mojo back, but defense and FTs must be a priority as well as unified team play and not the individual one-on-one baloney that doesn't work against well-balanced teams.

mizzoucoug wrote:
I just can't take it anymore. I am actually getting sick to my stomach watching this game. I know Portland is a good team, but I still refuse to believe that a team can miss as many free throws as ours does. I honestly don't have the words for it.



And somehow we can never rebound and are never in position to rebound--especially out of that pathetic thing called a zone we run. We'd be up close to double digits if only we could become average at these basic skills. That being said we still might win, but crap it doesn't need to be this self-defeating.

Irony of irony. Maybe CC can lock this thread and the thread I created in response since other than game threads, those are the only two threads that have generated any discussion in well over a week.



BTW, as I mentioned in the other thread, BYU is only 2-3 % off the national average on free throw shooting and improving as we speak now that they actually get to play at hime. 73% or so in the last two games. Collinsworth improved the most. 77% iirc.



BTW - we consistently out rebound our opponents.



Maybe there are a few other problems with this team.



Shot blocking for 1. We consistently have fewer than our opponents. Scoring defense. Poor inside game. Mediocre 3 point shioting. Mainly average play all around and playing tough teams mostly away from the Marriott Center.



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http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865595574/Worthington-an-unsung-hero-in-BYUs-win-over-Saint-Marys.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



“I had a goal to make 10 tonight, so I’m kind of bummed about that,” he said. “But we’re working hard on it to get better and better.”



Rose said Collinsworth has been focused on becoming a better free-throw shooter.

FTs are two things: Repetition and Confidence.



You need to shoot FTs the exact same way every single time. You need to repeat that shooting motion every single time. You need to shoot that shot so much that there is not one iota of variance in the muscle memory.



Then you need to have confidence that your FT stroke actually leads to made FTs and will lead to made FTs.

Props to KC. If he can get that % up into the 70's then I'll have a lot more confidence that this team can do some damage in the upcoming tourney(s).

scott715 wrote:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865595574/Worthington-an-unsung-hero-in-BYUs-win-over-Saint-Marys.html



“I had a goal to make 10 tonight, so I’m kind of bummed about that,” he said. “But we’re working hard on it to get better and better.”



Rose said Collinsworth has been focused on becoming a better free-throw shooter.

not only are his numbers getting better, he looks more comfortable at the line most of the time. I also read somewhere recently that he has had some back issues that have affected his shooting.



For whatever reasons, and I think there are at least 4, he is improving.



1. Focused effort to improve

2. Back is improving

3. Home Court

4. Experience in big games



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SpiffCoug wrote:
FTs are two things: Repetition and Confidence.



You need to shoot FTs the exact same way every single time. You need to repeat that shooting motion every single time. You need to shoot that shot so much that there is not one iota of variance in the muscle memory.



Then you need to have confidence that your FT stroke actually leads to made FTs and will lead to made FTs.

This



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mizzoucoug wrote:
Props to KC. If he can get that % up into the 70's then I'll have a lot more confidence that this team can do some damage in the upcoming tourney(s).

I believe he is over 77% in the last two home games and was even showing some improvement in the last few road games.



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Cougarbib wrote:

Props to KC. If he can get that % up into the 70's then I'll have a lot more confidence that this team can do some damage in the upcoming tourney(s).

I believe he is over 77% in the last two home games and was even showing some improvement in the last few road games.



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He is 14 of 18 (.778) the last two games. But he did go 20 of 35 (.571) during that four game road trip - to include 7 of 16 (.438) in final two games.



He is at 53 of 82 (.646) in conference play. But that is an improvement as he was 41 of 71 (.577) in non-conference play.