Starting to lean towards Evan McMullin for President

BroncoBot wrote:

The problem I see at this point is every criticism you can level at Hillary, you can level it at Trump. Every defense you can muster for Trump, you could apply to Hillary (e.g. "Trump said those things 10 years ago--it's in the past!", so that takes everything pre-2005 off the table for Hillary, wouldn't it?).



At this point, the only difference I can see between the two is that if Trump wins (he won't), the republicans can call it a "win", even if in name only because then they are stuck with him as long as he can go unimpeached. Otherwise, it all comes down to animus---I think people hate Hillary/Obama/DNC so much that they prefer nuking themselves to waiting for her to do it.

Well... except leaving people for dead and deleting tens of thousands (and maybe more) emails while sitting in an official role for the US.

Well, she apologized, and that seems to be enough to get Trump off the hook. See how the double-standard works?

There is more damning stuff on Trump coming out. I'm not sure if the Russians have blown their load already or not, their latest leak was pretty pathetic after all the buildup.

SpiffCoug wrote:

And I used to think you weren't an over-reactionary boob. See we both can play this game.

Ok, let's play your game. I have asked you to quote me accurately. You are still twisting what I have posted, being dishonest and inaccurate. You are choosing to be a dishonest punk biatch. If that's what you want to be - a dishonest a$$wipe by misquoting me and attributing things I did NOT say - you are doing a stellar job. If you want to have an accurate, honest, and adult conversation - great.



What I have said exactly is (as I have posted numerous times) - after 8 years of Obama and 4 to 8 more years of Hillary, this country will be irreversibly damaged.



That is precisely what I have posted. It is also true. It is true because of the judicial appointments to both the Supreme Court and Federal Appeals Courts. They will be controlled by liberal socialists that will legislate from the bench for the next 15-20 years. The damage to this country, the constitution, and our freedoms will be significant and irreversible.

SpiffCoug wrote:

Apparently I have more faith in this country than you do. I guess, I think the Constitution is stronger than a corrupt, dishonest and evil politician like Hillary Clinton. Hillary is going to be an truly abysmal president of epic proportions. But hopefully, real conservatives can come together and return to the principles that can restore this nation to greatness.

This is where you show how ignorant and foolish you are. No, you do not have more faith in this country than I do. I will put my commitment and faith in this country up against anyone. I graduated from BYU with an Army commission thru ROTC. After serving in the Infantry, I got out and got a job with the LA Co Sheriff's Dept. I also was in the Special Forces Reserve. After 7 years, I switched jobs and got on a Fire Dept. I have served in the capacity as a Captain for the last 17 years. My commitment to upholding the law, serving in leadership capacities, honoring commitments and sacrificing for the the Army, Sheriff's, my current employer, to this country and it's citizens is stellar and beyond reproach.

SpiffCoug wrote:

I don't fully know, but saying the country is done isn't it.

I have NEVER posted that. That is your dishonest interpretation of what I have posted.



Have a nice day.

You're right, I didn't quote you verbatim. But I did, in my opinion, take your opinion to it's logical conclusion. If you think the damage that will be done is irreversible then it seems logical that what comes after that "irreversible damage" is and end to the country.



The country has survived some of the worst SCOTUS decisions ever made - some of which affected our nation for over 100 years. It will survive Hillary's appointments - who I agree will be making very poor and likely unconstitutional decisions. I'm NOT saying there won't be any damage by Hillary. Just that it won't be irreversible. It may not be immediately irreversible and it may crate many hard times to come.



I also fail to see how my hoping that real conservatives coming together to restore our nation to greatness is showing how ignorant and foolish I am. I do not see how saying that Hillary is a "corrupt, dishonest and evil politician like Hillary Clinton. Hillary is going to be an truly abysmal president of epic proportions." How does that further demonstrate my unawareness of the threats she poses. Unless you are somehow saying she isn't those things, because I think you actually agree with me there.



And I'll see your ROTC and Reserves time raise you a tour in Iraq and a tour in Afghanistan. I'll also raise you five years working with various three-letter agencies. I also throw down nine years as a unit training and readiness NCO, a Bronze Star and a "V" device for Valor. So if you want to go tit for tat, we can play that game too.



That last post of mine, WAS an attempt at a grown up discussion. I called you a name, and for that, sir, I apologize. But I also gave you several well thought out opinions.

It is depressing to contemplate this election. We have a woman who will say anything to get elected. And we have a man who will do the same. And to top that off he boasts that he can sexually assault women and get away with it because he is a powerful man. I cannot vote for such a vile man or such a corrupt woman. I think The best I can do is pray for our nation and vote for a republican Congress to counter the corrupt woman who is going to win because the vile man is imploding before our eyes.

I think if defeating Hillary Clinton is the main part of your defense of Trump and recognize that Trump also has some big problems but you think Clinton would be worse, then fine. I understand that. But please also give the same respect to those who think Trump is worse. Everyone comes at it from a different angle and point of emphasis.

There are valid reasons a conservative would not want to vote for Trump. I'm surprised this is on breitbart though. Someone is going to get death threats probably.



http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/10/10/glenn-beck-electing-hillary-clinton-moral-ethical-choice/

I think it is time to give up on the President race and focus on keeping the Congress Red.

scott715 wrote:
I think it is time to give up on the President race and focus on keeping the Congress Red.

Which is what Paul Ryan is saying. This is probably the only viable strategy at this point because in the districts that are contested and could go either way, the Republican candidate probably has little chance of winning unless he/she runs away from Trump. Obviously in the ones where the democrat opposition is negligible it doesn't matter.

BlueK wrote:
There are valid reasons a conservative would not want to vote for Trump. I'm surprised this is on breitbart though. Someone is going to get death threats probably.



http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/10/10/glenn-beck-electing-hillary-clinton-moral-ethical-choice/

Breitbart and CNN are both misconstruing what Glenn said. The headlines read "Beck says Hillary is the Moral, Ethical Choice."



That's not what he said. He said the moral, ethical choice was to not vote for Trump, and if that means Hillary wins, so be it--you made a moral and ethical choice.



He did not say anything about choosing Hillary, he simply said choosing NOT to vote for Donald was moral and ethical, even if Hillary wins. The headlines (for differing agendas) push this as a tacit endorsement of Clinton, which it is not.



Glenn's man-crush/protege Erick Erickson just endorsed McMullin today, and I fully expect Glenn to do the same in the next few days.



edit: CNN has since corrected their headline to read "Glenn Beck: Opposing Trump is moral choice, even if Clinton wins", which puts it accurately.

scott715 wrote:
I think it is time to give up on the President race and focus on keeping the Congress Red.

Never give up. Never quit. Focus on both.

Part of the reason the market went down today is the speculation that congress will flip blue. The market does not want the government run by idiots and those who support her. The odds have increased that that might happen.

Trump has a problem in Utah



http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865664606/Poll-Trump-falls-into-tie-with-Clinton-among-Utah-voters.html?pg=all

Paul Ryan isn't stupid when it comes to politics. He's doing the right thing by telling Republican members of congress to do whatever they think they have to whether it means supporting Trump or saying something else.



This is why he is right: thanks to many years of careful gerrymandering, almost all Americans currently live in a Congressional district where one party or the other has no chance of losing no matter what. Its like over half run totally unopposed anyway. So those districts don't really matter. They're going to go Dem or Republican just like they do every time with 80% or more of the vote.



The rest are contested to some degree, but then again most of them are usually safe for one party or the other. The truth is that it's probably down to less than 75 of the 435 seats or so where it's going to determine which party ends up with the most. And in these swing districts independents usually are the deciders. As a group these people don't like Trump. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Republican in those districts downplaying his connection to Trump and just focusing on the local issues. It's a winning strategy for those places.





http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/s-e-cupp-paul-ryan-smart-article-1.2827124

with an article that just came out about all the LDS congressmen and senators from Utah and other states all dropping support of Trump (except Hatch so far) and recent poll numbers in Utah showing he's neck and neck with both Hillary and McMullin, I think the mormon attack from Trump is right on the horizon. I think it comes as soon as a poll shows him losing in Utah. He has shown so far that he lashes out at anyone or anything he thinks has slighted him. Also, his strategy at this point is just to get his hardcore base excited and hope Hillary's turnout is low. So bashing mormons at a southern rally somewhere packed with "evangelicals" fits right into that strategy.

What a loser.

While I'm not a Republican (I consider myself a conservative independent), one thing that occurred to me is that you do see many of them wrestling with their consciences about voting for Trump. Do we see any Democrats doing the same with Hillary, who's even worse?

KingCoug wrote:
While I'm not a Republican (I consider myself a conservative independent), one thing that occurred to me is that you do see many of them wrestling with their consciences about voting for Trump. Do we see any Democrats doing the same with Hillary, who's even worse?

It may be a given to you that Hillary is worse, but it isn't to everyone, including even to many conservatives. I guess we can nitpick about whether Mitt Romney, the Bush family, and about 25% of the Republicans in the US House who have refused to endorse him count as "conservatives" but I think that would be silly and totally beside the point. I think there is plenty of room for discussion on who is worse.



I'm not voting for either, but personally I'm less scared of HIllary. Trump is openly hostile to almost everything that is in the Bill of Rights. That's a really big deal to me, but I guess everyone has their own points of emphasis. The second amendment is about the only one he hasn't recently tried to stomp on. Read the article below. Trump has a willful ignorance of the first amendment, or even worse, he just doesn't like it and would love to ignore it or get rid of it. He would really like the government to have the right to punish you for saying something it doesn't like. That's really frightening because it's right out of the pages of third world dictator playbooks. He also has said many things that leave no doubt he doesn't like the 4th or 5th amendments either.



He's had his lawyer threaten the NY Times for publishing accounts of women he has groped without their consent when over the years so many times he has BRAGGED about participating in this type of behavior. The newspaper's response below is spot on.



http://documents.latimes.com/read-new-york-times-response-donald-trumps-lawyers/

This election cycle has convinced me that going forward, I will no longer support candidates guilty of marital infidelity. This should be a HUGE red flag that parties should hold as a red line.



I'd go so far as to say if you are a cheating spouse and are currently in office, you should be removed. If you are cheating spouse you should be barred from holding and running for public elected office at any level - local, state and federal.



I'd even be okay will all political appointees that require congressional approval be held to the same standard as well.

BlueK wrote:

While I'm not a Republican (I consider myself a conservative independent), one thing that occurred to me is that you do see many of them wrestling with their consciences about voting for Trump. Do we see any Democrats doing the same with Hillary, who's even worse?

It may be a given to you that Hillary is worse, but it isn't to everyone, including even to many conservatives. I guess we can nitpick about whether Mitt Romney, the Bush family, and about 25% of the Republicans in the US House who have refused to endorse him count as "conservatives" but I think that would be silly and totally beside the point. I think there is plenty of room for discussion on who is worse.



I'm not voting for either, but personally I'm less scared of HIllary. Trump is openly hostile to almost everything that is in the Bill of Rights. That's a really big deal to me, but I guess everyone has their own points of emphasis. The second amendment is about the only one he hasn't recently tried to stomp on. Read the article below. Trump has a willful ignorance of the first amendment, or even worse, he just doesn't like it and would love to ignore it or get rid of it. He would really like the government to have the right to punish you for saying something it doesn't like. That's really frightening because it's right out of the pages of third world dictator playbooks. He also has said many things that leave no doubt he doesn't like the 4th or 5th amendments either.



He's had his lawyer threaten the NY Times for publishing accounts of women he has groped without their consent when over the years so many times he has BRAGGED about participating in this type of behavior. The newspaper's response below is spot on.



http://documents.latimes.com/read-new-york-times-response-donald-trumps-lawyers/

Trump is bad but anyone familar with Hillary's history wouldn't question if she's worse. Well, unless they're a liberal partisan hack. The damage she'd do through her Supreme Court picks alone makes her the worst of the two evils. As for Trump, the guy has a big mouth more than anything. But, if he's elected, I think the realities of the office will reign him in a lot.