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Udub @ BYU: Each Fanbase Expects Easy Win

by PurpleReign · 7/26/2010

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Italics
craigoscarson wrote:
Did anyone see the 4 qbs from the Pac-10 on ESPN today?



And did anyone notice that Locker couldn't hit the side of a barn when they did the helmet thing? He's always had accuracy problems and I expect that to continue. A month of fall camp is not going to cure that.



Is Locker going to be the next Brian Brohm? A guy that fizzles out the season that he was supposedly the #1 draft pick?


I smell some BYU interceptions on september 4th...
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Italics
PurpleReign wrote:
There really is a difference from top to bottom when it comes to a BCS conference and Mid Major conference.




Is that why the Pac-10 has been .500 against the MWC over the last 3-4 seasons? (oh, and that's not counting CSU's victory over now-Pac-10 Colorado last season)
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PurpleReign
BlueIsBetter wrote:
As for QB U, I will admit BYU has had a lot of success with college awards, but that is because it is a system offense. I think UW takes the #1 spot because it produces NFL quarterbacks, many of which did have a lot of success at the college level, just didn't put up the gaudy numbers of a system offense (same reason Hawaii QB's broke all those records but were not high priorities from NFL teams).


So your argument is that your qb's are not as good at the college level - and mediocre in the NFL too - but there are more mediocre players out there than BYU's. Did I get that right, or did you want to run that by me again? "At least we get our qb's into the NFL, where the never see the light of iday from the end of the bench." I mean, your claim to fame is Warren Moon. Right? Let me repeat that, Warren Moon. The journeyman much ado about nothing qb. Hell, he plays for the PROS now against 16 year old kids. Do I have that right? Warren Moon!?!? Is your pitch to future QB prospects "Hey, Warren Moon came out of Udub." Then you grab the recruit to be by the shoulders, and shake him yelling, "Warren Moon, son! Warren Moon!"




That's not what I was saying at all. And Mark Brunell and Chris Chandler each had higher achievements than Warren Moon, so your rant is pretty far off target. I doubt I can convince you UW produces more QB's than BYU, so I don't think there is much point in trading jabs and pokes in the eye over this.
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craigoscarson
PurpleReign wrote:
PurpleReign wrote:
As for QB U, I will admit BYU has had a lot of success with college awards, but that is because it is a system offense. I think UW takes the #1 spot because it produces NFL quarterbacks, many of which did have a lot of success at the college level, just didn't put up the gaudy numbers of a system offense (same reason Hawaii QB's broke all those records but were not high priorities from NFL teams).


So your argument is that your qb's are not as good at the college level - and mediocre in the NFL too - but there are more mediocre players out there than BYU's. Did I get that right, or did you want to run that by me again? "At least we get our qb's into the NFL, where the never see the light of iday from the end of the bench." I mean, your claim to fame is Warren Moon. Right? Let me repeat that, Warren Moon. The journeyman much ado about nothing qb. Hell, he plays for the PROS now against 16 year old kids. Do I have that right? Warren Moon!?!? Is your pitch to future QB prospects "Hey, Warren Moon came out of Udub." Then you grab the recruit to be by the shoulders, and shake him yelling, "Warren Moon, son! Warren Moon!"




That's not what I was saying at all. And Mark Brunell and Chris Chandler each had higher achievements than Warren Moon, so your rant is pretty far off target. I doubt I can convince you UW produces more QB's than BYU, so I don't think there is much point in trading jabs and pokes in the eye over this.


Reign - you don't know your NFL history if you think that what Brunell and Chandler achieved even came close to what Warren Moon did. Moon was a victim of racism at Washington and then a victim of racism in the NFL. He had to shatter every record in the CFL before an NFL team would give him a chance. When they finally did, he was as prolific as any quarterback in NFL history.



In 1990, the Kc Chiefs were supposed to be pretty good. All Warren did that day was throw for 527 yards in 3 1/2 quarters. The 2nd most in NFL history; it's a crying shame he didn't get the record that day. I was there.



He is without a doubt the greatest pro qb that has ever come out of UW.



In spite of that; he's no Steve Young; who to me was the most complete qb in NFL history in his prime.



The fact that BYU dominates the QB awards in college and you believe (incorrectly) that UW owns the NFL discussion says to me that UW is not the reason that they ended up in the NFL, but rather in spite of UW. Maybe if your talented Qbs had proper coaching, theyd have done something in college and won more in the pros. So what....Brunell, Chandler, and Huard got NFL paychecks. Hate to tell you but there are currently more BYU Qbs (playing QB) in the NFL than UW.



BYU invented the college passing game; it's not a "system" it's "The system" even Bill Walsh calls Lavell Edwards the pioneer of passing in college football. We literally have thrown for miles more yards than our nearest competitor since 1975.



We appreciate your worship...



To repeat: here's the scorecard on the BYU vs UW quarterback question



Davey Obrien BYU 4 UW 0

Sammy Baugh BYU 7 UW 0

Heisman BYU 1 UW 0

Super Bowl 2 UW 0
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CougarClaw
of course, neither team has been very proflic at putting QB's in the NFL of late which is a mix of skill and luck granted...



And no, Doman, Beck and Hall certainly aren't exactly breaking down the NFL HOF door.
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PurpleReign
I said "higher" achievements, not more achievements. Moon lead the NFL in almost all passing categories at some point in his career and some until the last few years. But like Dan Marino, he was never part of a good franchise.



Brunell took the Jaguars to the AFC Championship game once or twice and Chandler took the Falcons to the Superbowl. I was simply saying that Udub QB's do not begin and end with Warren Moon, who broke records, but didn't reach as far into the playoffs as those other two Udub QB's.



I was in no way speaking negatively of Moon, only that he wasn't the only successful Udub QB in the NFL.
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allcoug
PurpleReign wrote:
I said "higher" achievements, not more achievements. Moon lead the NFL in almost all passing categories at some point in his career and some until the last few years. But like Dan Marino, he was never part of a good franchise.



Brunell took the Jaguars to the AFC Championship game once or twice and Chandler took the Falcons to the Superbowl. I was simply saying that Udub QB's do not begin and end with Warren Moon, who broke records, but didn't reach as far into the playoffs as those other two Udub QB's.



I was in no way speaking negatively of Moon, only that he wasn't the only successful Udub QB in the NFL.


Maybe this thread is almost dead...but if you are seriously putting up three average quarterbacks against the long line of BYU QB's then you have a real bad case homerism. By your logic there is no better QB University then Louisiana Tech.....that's where Terry Bradshaw went to college - he has four super bowl rings and two MVP trophies. How many rings does Udub quarterbacks have? BYU is the ONLY university that can rightfully be called Quarterback U.
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PurpleReign
I tried to back out of the detour we have gone down with the "QB U" topic, maybe we should just return to discussing the upcoming game? Besides, thats far more interesting (in my opinion) than arm wrestling over QB history.
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craigoscarson
PurpleReign wrote:
I said "higher" achievements, not more achievements. Moon lead the NFL in almost all passing categories at some point in his career and some until the last few years. But like Dan Marino, he was never part of a good franchise.



Brunell took the Jaguars to the AFC Championship game once or twice and Chandler took the Falcons to the Superbowl. I was simply saying that Udub QB's do not begin and end with Warren Moon, who broke records, but didn't reach as far into the playoffs as those other two Udub QB's.



I was in no way speaking negatively of Moon, only that he wasn't the only successful Udub QB in the NFL.


Brunell did get a super bowl ring last year as the backup to Brees.



Brunells college #s?

1990 132 275 48.0 1,895 16 9

1992 127 219 58.0 1,609 7 4



Chandlers college #s

Year Comp Att Comp % Passing TD INT

1986 180 318 56.6 2193 20 15

1987 143 279 51.3 1973 11 14



John Beck threw for more yards in college than both of them combined.

Year Games Attempts Completions Comp % Yards Avg TDs Interceptions QB Rating

2003 8 145 73 50.3% 864 6.0 5 5 59.4

2004 11 343 192 56.0% 2563 7.5 15 8 84.7

2005 12 513 331 64.5% 3709 7.2 27 13 92.9

2006 12 417 289 69.3% 3885 9.3 32 8 116.3

Total 43 1418 885 62.4% 11021 7.8 79 34



Ty Detmer?

1,530 pass attempts; 958 completions; 15,031 passing yards; 121 touchdown passes; 14,665 yards of total offense; 135 touchdowns responsible for; and 162.7 passer rating. All of these totals established NCAA records



Now if you're a high school quarterback, tell me where you'd rather go?



Let's ask Jake Heaps....
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PurpleReign
craigoscarson wrote:
I said "higher" achievements, not more achievements. Moon lead the NFL in almost all passing categories at some point in his career and some until the last few years. But like Dan Marino, he was never part of a good franchise.



Brunell took the Jaguars to the AFC Championship game once or twice and Chandler took the Falcons to the Superbowl. I was simply saying that Udub QB's do not begin and end with Warren Moon, who broke records, but didn't reach as far into the playoffs as those other two Udub QB's.



I was in no way speaking negatively of Moon, only that he wasn't the only successful Udub QB in the NFL.


Brunell did get a super bowl ring last year as the backup to Brees.



Brunells college #s?

1990 132 275 48.0 1,895 16 9

1992 127 219 58.0 1,609 7 4



Chandlers college #s

Year Comp Att Comp % Passing TD INT

1986 180 318 56.6 2193 20 15

1987 143 279 51.3 1973 11 14



John Beck threw for more yards in college than both of them combined.

Year Games Attempts Completions Comp % Yards Avg TDs Interceptions QB Rating

2003 8 145 73 50.3% 864 6.0 5 5 59.4

2004 11 343 192 56.0% 2563 7.5 15 8 84.7

2005 12 513 331 64.5% 3709 7.2 27 13 92.9

2006 12 417 289 69.3% 3885 9.3 32 8 116.3

Total 43 1418 885 62.4% 11021 7.8 79 34



Ty Detmer?

1,530 pass attempts; 958 completions; 15,031 passing yards; 121 touchdown passes; 14,665 yards of total offense; 135 touchdowns responsible for; and 162.7 passer rating. All of these totals established NCAA records



Now if you're a high school quarterback, tell me where you'd rather go?



Let's ask Jake Heaps....




Yeah, Hawaii and Texas Tech put up huge passing numbers too. Like I said, system offense.



And Jake Heaps went to BYU because he is Mormon, don't kid yourself if you think it was for any other reason. Outside of the Mormon community BYU is not high on many peoples radar. That is why BYU does not get elite prospects unless they are Mormon, it's the nature of a religious school in a lower tier conference (ND and SMU (20 years ago) being a couple of exceptions of schools who transcended their religious affiliations, in part because of success but also because of simple numbers, there are far more Christians than Mormons playing football).
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Mars
PurpleReign wrote:
Jake Heaps went to BYU because he is Mormon, don't kid yourself if you think it was for any other reason. Outside of the Mormon community BYU is not high on many peoples radar. That is why BYU does not get elite prospects unless they are Mormon, it's the nature of a religious school in a lower tier conference.

Tell it to LB Lene Lesatale: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700034208/BYU-football-Cougars-get-verbal-commitment-from-prep-linebacker.html

Or LB Alani Fua: http://byu.scout.com/a.z?s=338&p=8&c=1&nid=3931369

Or OL Graham Rowley: http://byu.scout.com/a.z?s=338&p=8&c=1&nid=3859397

Or LB Zac Stout: http://byu.scout.com/a.z?s=338&p=8&c=1&nid=3927674



Perhaps, just perhaps, high school football players want to play at a Top 25 school, instead of a crappy school that can't make a bowl game to save their life. That's the only thing Washington and USC have in common right now.



It's okay though, Neuheisel Jr. at Washington can always pick up criminals that are kicked out of other programs instead, since he can't win many recruiting battles, not even against "mid-majors" with superior programs to theirs, like BYU.
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craigoscarson
Yeah, Hawaii and Texas Tech put up huge passing numbers too. Like I said, system offense.


We were doing that long before either of those schools ever considered it. Like I said, we're not "a system" , we're "The System" and whatever system it takes for a quarterback to throw and throw and throw, is where an elite quarterback wants to go. Not every elite quarterback has to have NFL size; they have to have what it takes to succeed at the college level.

You can have your awful college Qbs with NFL size and we'll take our successful warriors.


And Jake Heaps went to BYU because he is Mormon, don't kid yourself if you think it was for any other reason.




Jake Heaps went to BYU because he has a chance to win a national championship while he's here. If that weren't so, he'd be a Husky as we speak. Just ask him or his family.



Yes, this school represents his religion, but not every #1 Mormon recruit in the nation chooses BYU simply because of religion. Haloti Ngata went elsewhere, as did Manti Teo.



Maybe you remember them? Haloti helped usher in the worst decade of Washington football in history and Manti watched you guys choke away the ND game last year.



Forgive us if we're not impressed with the 2010 version of the team that couldn't beat a 6-6 Notre Dame squad that lost at home to Navy and Uconn.



Like I said, a lot of chest beating for a team that hasn't even been to a bowl game in 5 years; let alone won one.



We beat the #3 team in the country last year in their territory, wrecked their season by breaking Bradford into pieces, and went on to watch that same team place 3 of the first 4 picks in the NFL draft.... and you think we're impressed with Washington coming to our place? You're jokin right?



Maybe Jordan Pendleton needs to give Jake Locker the Colby Clawson/Sam Bradford treatment for you to learn a little humility. Apparently a winless season didn't work.
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jonnylingo
I am glad purple reign has joined us here but he is getting worked.
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Cougy_Monster
PurpleReign wrote:


....it's the nature of a religious school in a lower tier conference.....




From one Homer to another, I like you PurpleReign and you're welcome on this board.



However, I wonder why Pac-10 fans habitually insult their own conference by calling the MWC weak or a "lower tier conference." We all know the MWC has owned the Pac-10 in the last few years. If we have a weak conference then you guys are in a world of hurt.



The only thing the Pac-10 has over the MWC is more money and a corner on the market for leftist agendas.
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Cougs_Rule
ahhh......Purple Rain...and you were playing so nice for so long. It's a shame. Take a deep breath of air and your face wont look so purple and the world wont look so purple. Take down the Cougars and then you can talk a little purple trash. We can hardly find fault, its been a long, hot summer for us as well. It will be great to get the show going.
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Cougs_Rule
By the way, while I'm at it... Please, for the love of Locker, get a make-over on your stinking stadium. Very cool setting! But One of THE most outdated, broken down stadiums I have ever visited. What are your purple administrators doing with all that Big-boy BCS money? BTW, it was great watching Locker throw away the game.
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Brayden Green
It looks like this years version of ZacSooner has finally shown himself, with - GASP - Mormon comments, to boot.



Jake Heaps came to BYU because he had a chance to usher in a championship. He was talking National, but we'll get a few conference along the way. You can't even win your pathetic conference, how do you expect to win the champion of better conferences?



You have been measured. You have been weighed. And you have left, wanting.



The comfort I find, is that very soon you will have to deal with elitist Ute Pukes, to match your elitism. Go back to your gilded conference with vaulted ceilings and empty walls, and leave us poor commoners to wallow in our own sorrow and ineptitude. Thank you for gracing us with your presence.
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Cougy_Monster
Come on guys. Let's be nice to our Purple guest. It's nice having the opponent around. He has every right to be a Homer and support his team. Think if the yewts even had one such fan how lucky they would be.



I can easily see how one would think that the only top QB recruits that end up at BYU do so because they are Mormon. Instead of getting worked into a frenzy over that comment just point out the historical facts to make your point.....



Ty Detmer, not LDS when recruited to BYU



McMahon, not LDS



Sarkisian, not LDS



In fact Doman was the first returned missionary QB that was highly successful, followed by Beck and then Hall. Before those 3 guys the team was always better recruiting non-LDS QBs or having the LDS guys skip the mission experience. Now we get the best of both worlds.



Now, either way you look at the argument, the best part is that every year there is at least 1 great LDS QB in the country and every 4 or 6 years there is a superhero LDS QB and BYU has historically had right of first refusal on these guys. It's a great position to be in.
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ABYUFAN
Cougy_Monster wrote:
Come on guys. Let's be nice to our Purple guest. It's nice having the opponent around. He has every right to be a Homer and support his team. Think if the yewts even had one such fan how lucky they would be.



I can easily see how one would think that the only top QB recruits that end up at BYU do so because they are Mormon. Instead of getting worked into a frenzy over that comment just point out the historical facts to make your point.....



Ty Detmer, not LDS when recruited to BYU



McMahon, not LDS



Sarkisian, not LDS



In fact Doman was the first returned missionary QB that was highly successful, followed by Beck and then Hall. Before those 3 guys the team was always better recruiting non-LDS QBs or having the LDS guys skip the mission experience. Now we get the best of both worlds.



Now, either way you look at the argument, the best part is that every year there is at least 1 great LDS QB in the country and every 4 or 6 years there is a superhero LDS QB and BYU has historically had right of first refusal on these guys. It's a great position to be in.

Don't forget that Bosco wasn't Mormon until AFTER the national championship
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Lawboy
Never underestimate the influence of a hawt Mormon woman. Even McMahon has mellowed due to his hot Mormon wife, believe it or not. And ask Glenn Beck what it did for him. Seriously, hot Mormon women do great missionary work.



And as to talent levels, PurpleReign, I believe BYU outrecruited your program for a while. Along with outcoached. You guys are heading in the right direction now, but not quite there yet. And even Sark saw the writing on the wall with BYU, so they dropped games 3 and 4 of the contract. If BYU was such a crap mid-major, UW would still have those games calendared. But they opted for 2 gimmies, which BYU is not. And as to religion, last I checked, it had zero bearing on the outcome of any game ever played. So who cares why a player chooses school A or school B. Results speak for themselves.
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