Today's officials

The CBS Announcers remarked several times that BYU was not getting any calls. I think they were in a position to be pretty objective.

Gunk wrote:
Don't forget the no call on the goal tending either. But I thought it was a pretty well officiated game.



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that's the third one I've seen this year for BYU not called when even the TV announcers picked it up, but I watch a lot of Big Ten games and I've seen that same call missed a couple times there. I guess it is hard for the refs to look up?

Besides the blocking foul already mentioned here on Jimmer, the two plays that bothered me the most was calling 3 seconds on Davies while he had the ball in his hands in the key. I've rerun that play and I never get to 3 seconds. The play following I time one of the SDSU players underneath and he's there for four seconds.



I'll admit that before this game, I didn't know that the 3 second foul even applied to the guy with the ball that was in the key, but he was not there for 3 seconds.



The other play was in the second half where you see the SDSU player behind Jimmer and he pushes him in the back, Jimmer's head even snaps back from the whiplash and the ball shoots out of his hands and he turns it over. No call. Amazing.



I think I'm in the boat of calling this a very poorly officiated game, but I can count on one hand the ones I've seen in the MWC that I have felt were actually well called.

Jimmer was getting absolutely MUGGED all game long and shot less then 10 free throws. Just because 2 teams shoot a similar number of free throws does not mean that the game was officiated fairly. I couldn't believe how badly this game was officiated. If the fouls were called that should have been called, it would have been a 20 point + win for BYU. Having said that, BYU did exactly what teams should do and that is just keep playing and make sure the officials don't lose the game for you. Complaining to an official after a no call does noting but allow the other team to run the ball up the floor and score on you.

EM_Puma wrote:

Don't forget the no call on the goal tending either. But I thought it was a pretty well officiated game.



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that's the third one I've seen this year for BYU not called when even the TV announcers picked it up, but I watch a lot of Big Ten games and I've seen that same call missed a couple times there. I guess it is hard for the refs to look up?

Sometimes it's a VERY hard call to make. I'll give the refs the benefit of the doubt. The rule is that after the ball has touched the glass you can't touch it or it's goal tending. If you pin the ball on the glass (get there the same time as the ball) or get to the ball before it touches glass it's fine. HArd to tell sometime if the guy got there a SPLIT second after it touched glass or pinned it. Yesterday was a close call too, I never could tell. I didn't see Jimmer argue it too much and it was an amazing athletic play by White.



The only exception to this rule is if the ball touches glass below the level of the rim, it's still fair game unless the ball is past it's peak and on the way down.



At least, that's the way I've always understood it.

My understanding too was that after a ball hit it's pinacle of height and was then descending, that any hit to the ball was also goal tending. I thought that is what I saw in the shot that Jimmer was contending with the ref afterwards that it should have been goal tending plus one.

You didn't see Jimmer stretch both arms out, crouch down, and ask "Why...?" In between his first and second freethrow?



And rightfully so... The game was terribly called (though things got a little better for Jimmer after that...)



- the 3 seconds call, when S(t)DSU was in the key for 5 seconds minimum every play.



- the handchecking call on Anderson, right after Jimmer got hammered off the ball.



- Leonard leading with an elbow everytime he drove in.



- Leonard bashing into Emery after he left his feet. Should've been a no call at worst.



- over the back's galore



- Jimmer getting held up and bumped off every offball screen.



- EVERY foul called on Jimmer was a joke....



- A couple SDSU undervuttings could've been called at least a flagrant one.



- Missed goaltendings.



- A S(t)DSU pushoff on literally every defensive rebound.



The few fouls we commited in the lane they didn't call in no way makeup for the travisty that was this game. Good bye Mountain Worst Crapfest. And goodbye to your horribly biased, and overall tremedously sucking ref crew.



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I'm gonna say I thought they did about as well as any MWC game, with or without Jimmer playing. Now, that's not a glowing recommendation by any stretch, but I was trying to watch the game from as unbiased an opinion as I could (it amuses my wife, actually, how often in a game I'll say, "I'd've called that a foul," the offender in question being a BYU player - and I said it a lot yesterday), and I really truly don't think the refs made any/many more BAD calls/no-calls on us than they did on SDSU.



Conceded, a couple of the charges were poor indeed, but that one near the end I believe DID deserve to be called on Jimmer, NOT because the guy was set (because he wasn't), and NOT because Jimmer didn't make first contact "nipples-out," as my coach would say (defender not squared up), because he wasn't, but because Jimmer raised the knee. The ref is well within his right to call an offensive foul when the guy driving puts a knee in the defenders throat, and I think if Jimmer hadn't looked/been out of control on that drive specifically, he'd have gotten the call, for the reasons I mentioned above.



Annnnnyway, the thing I noticed most in the game regarding the refs I was about to make its own thread, but it'll fit well enough here.



I called it each team's respective "pet" foul, the type of foul that a team commits (in hopes of not getting called for it, of course), that is of GREATEST advantage to them.



SDSU's pet foul was smacking any arm on the ball. Mostly Jimmers', but also others'. They tried to disrupt our flow by smacking the heck out of arms. It worked reasonably well. Yes, we did it some too, they did it more.



BYU's pet foul was over-the-backs to get rebounds. Don't flame me here, go back and watch. We were ALL SORTS of climbing on 'em, because in many portions of the game, we were undersized to them, and they simply have 3-4 guys on the court at any one point in time who just have that INSTINCT about boards, and are constantly in the right place to get 'em. That we got as close to their count as we did is attributable to the fact that we were hammering them, in many cases from behind, to get boards. Yes, they did it some too, we did it more.



The thing is, the refs were content to let each team's respective pet foul slide in this game, and thankfully, it was to our advantage more than theirs. It isn't the optimal way to be officiated in a game, but I'll take it, and hope we get the same rebounding leeway in the NCAA tournament, 'cause we could be tough to beat doing to "oversized" opponents what we did in San Diego.

frdbtr wrote:
If the fouls were called that should have been called, it would have been a 20 point + win for BYU.

we won by 13, so that means if each missed foul was a two shot foul, that they only missed 3-4 calls to hit the 20+ mark. That doesn't seem to bad, now a 30 point win....



I also don't think you can complain about officiating without also mentioning the calls that didn't go SDSU's way also. We sound too whiny and conspiracy theoried when it's all against MY team.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Y

- Leonard bashing into Emery after he left his feet. Should've been a no call at worst.

Every basketball instructor will tell you to pump fake it under the basket, get your defender to leave his feet, then you jump, lean into his now uncontrollable position, and if you have the upper body strength to take the hit and make the basket, you'll get the +1 call almost every time.



That's what I saw with this play, Leonard got Emery to leave his feet, leaned into him and threw it up to get the call. Heads up play if you ask me, but that's why KaWHY is a good player.

EM_Puma wrote:
The other play was in the second half where you see the SDSU player behind Jimmer and he pushes him in the back, Jimmer's head even snaps back from the whiplash and the ball shoots out of his hands and he turns it over. No call. Amazing.

I told my wife that I couldn't believe that they let that go. I guess it's hard to see a guy's head snap back when you're right next to him and (at least supposed to be) looking right at him. :skeptic:

CougarClaw wrote:

Y

- Leonard bashing into Emery after he left his feet. Should've been a no call at worst.

Every basketball instructor will tell you to pump fake it under the basket, get your defender to leave his feet, then you jump, lean into his now uncontrollable position, and if you have the upper body strength to take the hit and make the basket, you'll get the +1 call almost every time.



That's what I saw with this play, Leonard got Emery to leave his feet, leaned into him and threw it up to get the call. Heads up play if you ask me, but that's why KaWHY is a good player.

It could have easily been a no call. Yes Jack left his feet, but look at where he landed. Behind the 3 line, with Leonards feet being no closer than 1 and a 1/2 feet behind the 3 line. So in essence, he leaned 2-3 feet forward to make contact with a "leaning back" emery.



Who do you think initiated the contact there?

I'll take the foul on Emery, seemed like a smart basketball move by the offense. What I won't take, however, is guys like Teague and Harden coming into the MC and getting every call, even when elbowing our guys and then Jimmer gets treated like a scrub. I don't know if its a big conference vs little conference thing, a race thing, an anti-BYU thing, whatever. But it sucks, we deserve to have the advantages that other teams with star players get, or at least have our star player treated as an equal to everyone else on the court.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Y

- Leonard bashing into Emery after he left his feet. Should've been a no call at worst.

Every basketball instructor will tell you to pump fake it under the basket, get your defender to leave his feet, then you jump, lean into his now uncontrollable position, and if you have the upper body strength to take the hit and make the basket, you'll get the +1 call almost every time.



That's what I saw with this play, Leonard got Emery to leave his feet, leaned into him and threw it up to get the call. Heads up play if you ask me, but that's why KaWHY is a good player.

It could have easily been a no call. Yes Jack left his feet, but look at where he landed. Behind the 3 line, with Leonards feet being no closer than 1 and a 1/2 feet behind the 3 line. So in essence, he leaned 2-3 feet forward to make contact with a "leaning back" emery.



Who do you think initiated the contact there?

I've never understood why this call is so misunderstood. If the guy is in the air and you jump into him the foul is always on him. It doesn't matter who initiates the contact...I've played in too many games where guys don't know this and get mad at the call.

Schmoe wrote:
I'll take the foul on Emery, seemed like a smart basketball move by the offense. What I won't take, however, is guys like Teague and Harden coming into the MC and getting every call, even when elbowing our guys and then Jimmer gets treated like a scrub. I don't know if its a big conference vs little conference thing, a race thing, an anti-BYU thing, whatever. But it sucks, we deserve to have the advantages that other teams with star players get, or at least have our star player treated as an equal to everyone else on the court.

This is exactly what I said during the chat...in an effort to avoid giving "star" treatment to Jimmer they overcompensate and give him scrub treatment instead. Totally bogus and certainly doesn't help that the ref crew at SDSU already doesn't like Jimmer.

Cougarbib2 wrote:
The CBS Announcers remarked several times that BYU was not getting any calls. I think they were in a position to be pretty objective.

They also said that they let both teams play. This was a well called game. Best we've probably seen during all of conference play, and definitely for the second half of conference play. The refs wanted to make sure they weren't the story in the biggest game in the MWC, so they called most of the obvious stuff, let a lot of stuff go that both teams were doing that had minimal effect on the game play, and let the players decide the game.



Sure during the game I was upset about some of the stuff that wasn't called, but looking at it rationally later, both teams got away with about the same amount of stuff. Only 2 things bothered me. The block/charge calls were pretty bad all game long. It is the hardest call in the game, but all the 50/50 calls on this went one way. The next one that bothered me was when they called Davies for 3 seconds when he's 10 to 12 feet from the basket, but let Kawhi Leonard do the same thing two feet from the basket. I think they called the 3 seconds after Davies got rid of the ball if I remember, while Leonard never passed it and ended up scoring, so that may have been the difference. I personally think that 3 seconds is a terrible call to make anyway unless someone is just camping in the lane (ie Dwight Howard in the NBA).

mizzoucoug wrote:

CougarClaw wrote:

Y

- Leonard bashing into Emery after he left his feet. Should've been a no call at worst.

Every basketball instructor will tell you to pump fake it under the basket, get your defender to leave his feet, then you jump, lean into his now uncontrollable position, and if you have the upper body strength to take the hit and make the basket, you'll get the +1 call almost every time.



That's what I saw with this play, Leonard got Emery to leave his feet, leaned into him and threw it up to get the call. Heads up play if you ask me, but that's why KaWHY is a good player.

It could have easily been a no call. Yes Jack left his feet, but look at where he landed. Behind the 3 line, with Leonards feet being no closer than 1 and a 1/2 feet behind the 3 line. So in essence, he leaned 2-3 feet forward to make contact with a "leaning back" emery.



Who do you think initiated the contact there?

I've never understood why this call is so misunderstood. If the guy is in the air and you jump into him the foul is always on him. It doesn't matter who initiates the contact...I've played in too many games where guys don't know this and get mad at the call.

I'm not saying it was a foul on Leonard. It could have very well been a no call. Leonard dove at Jack, and were it not for that, there would have been no contact. And Jack was on the ground when contact was initiated.

Yep, easy call. Always goes against the defender when it is called*.



* If Jimmer is the shooter then the correct call per MWC officials is a no-call, because clearly the defender was attempting not to foul so the foul shouldn't be called.

Didn't Jackson get called for an offensive foul earlier this year for the exact same play, only he was the one with the ball jumping into the defender? Maybe I'm off but it seems like there was a play like that previously.



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BYULV wrote:
Didn't Jackson get called for an offensive foul earlier this year for the exact same play, only he was the one with the ball jumping into the defender? Maybe I'm off but it seems like there was a play like that previously.



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I don't remember anything like that.